Does God change his mind?

[OnceConvinced]

A Christian member of our forum recently pointed out a bible contradiction for all to see:

This verse was presented first:
Numbers 23:19 "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind."

The Christian then attempted to trump it with a contradictory scripture where God DOES change his mind, thus exposing a blatant bible contradiction:

Jeremiah 18:8 "But if that nation about which I spoke turns from its evil way, I'll change my mind about the disaster that I had planned for it."

Here are further verses that show God changing his mind:

Exodus 32:14
So the LORD changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.

Amos 7:3
The LORD changed His mind about this. "It shall not be," said the LORD.

Jeremiah 18:10
if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it. (wow this is a verse where God says he will break his promise!!)


So questions for debate:

Does Got change his mind?
If he does change his mind, how do we know he hasn't changed his mind about much of what he expected from us in the New Testament?
If he does change his mind, how can we really know what he wants of us today?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 160 by Justin108]

viewtopic.php?p=850933#850933

I said I wasn't going to repeat myself.

[Justin108]

[Replying to post 160 by Justin108]

viewtopic.php?p=850933#850933

I said I wasn't going to repeat myself.

Oh I wouldn't want you to. See your original explanation for why God cannot see the future is because if God did then the future would be pre-made. The thing is though, your conclusion that "then the future would be pre-made" is a conclusion reached using human logic. But since you can't use human logic anymore (with it being so flawed and all) you cannot use this argument anymore.

So without using "human logic", please explain to me how you know God cannot see into the future?

[Blastcat]

I'm sorry for your failure but I can't make it more clear.

Then the two of you have failed.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 160 by Justin108]

viewtopic.php?p=850933#850933

I said I wasn't going to repeat myself.

Oh I wouldn't want you to. See your original explanation for why God cannot see the future is because if God did then the future would be pre-made. The thing is though, your conclusion that "then the future would be pre-made" is a conclusion reached using human logic. But since you can't use human logic anymore (with it being so flawed and all) you cannot use this argument anymore.

So without using "human logic", please explain to me how you know God cannot see into the future?

Human logic says that God must look into the future in order to foretell the future. It blows the mind to think that God doesn't have know every person's choice to foretell the future. Yet the Bible reads that seeing into the future is not needed to foretell it. Why not? Because God's knowledge and ways are beyond what we can understand. I can't describe what I don't understand, thus all I'd have for you is speculation and not necessarily truth. So until we can get some more information on how God does what He does without peering into the future lives of people, it is not possible to describe somethings that defy logic. Like, making the Sun and Moon standing still. I have no idea how that can be accomplished. It goes against all known human logic. But I believe it happened because of my faith in the God's Word. I can't explain something without human logic as I am a human, it's all I have.

[Justin108]

[Replying to post 160 by Justin108]

viewtopic.php?p=850933#850933

I said I wasn't going to repeat myself.

Oh I wouldn't want you to. See your original explanation for why God cannot see the future is because if God did then the future would be pre-made. The thing is though, your conclusion that "then the future would be pre-made" is a conclusion reached using human logic. But since you can't use human logic anymore (with it being so flawed and all) you cannot use this argument anymore.

So without using "human logic", please explain to me how you know God cannot see into the future?

Human logic says that God must look into the future in order to foretell the future. It blows the mind to think that God doesn't have know every person's choice to foretell the future. Yet the Bible reads that seeing into the future is not needed to foretell it. Why not? Because God's knowledge and ways are beyond what we can understand. I can't describe what I don't understand, thus all I'd have for you is speculation and not necessarily truth. So until can get some more information on how God does what He does without peering into the future lives of people, it is not possible to describe something without human logic as I am a human, it's all I have.

I am not asking how God knows things without seeing into the future, I am asking how you know God does not see the future?

You insist God cannot see into the future. You support this claim with an argument using human logic. You can no longer use human logic (as you insist it is flawed). So how is it you know God cannot see into the future?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 160 by Justin108]

viewtopic.php?p=850933#850933

I said I wasn't going to repeat myself.

Oh I wouldn't want you to. See your original explanation for why God cannot see the future is because if God did then the future would be pre-made. The thing is though, your conclusion that "then the future would be pre-made" is a conclusion reached using human logic. But since you can't use human logic anymore (with it being so flawed and all) you cannot use this argument anymore.

So without using "human logic", please explain to me how you know God cannot see into the future?

Human logic says that God must look into the future in order to foretell the future. It blows the mind to think that God doesn't have know every person's choice to foretell the future. Yet the Bible reads that seeing into the future is not needed to foretell it. Why not? Because God's knowledge and ways are beyond what we can understand. I can't describe what I don't understand, thus all I'd have for you is speculation and not necessarily truth. So until can get some more information on how God does what He does without peering into the future lives of people, it is not possible to describe something without human logic as I am a human, it's all I have.

I am not asking how God knows things without seeing into the future, I am asking how you know God does not see the future?

You insist God cannot see into the future. You support this claim with an argument using human logic. You can no longer use human logic (as you insist it is flawed). So how is it you know God cannot see into the future?

The problem here is that your stuck on is that only one way to see the future. What I'm insisting on is that God doesn't see the future as you logically think there is only one way to see the future. So I'm not saying He doesn't know the future. I'm saying according to the Bible there is another way to know the future without actually knowing an individual's choices. I cannot logically tell you how this is done.

Also, about human logic statement, It was about your reply to a comment about the Bible and not really about future telling. That the Bible contradicts logic and you're not wrong. At times, yes it does contradicts our current logic where it doesn't make sense. That doesn't mean that it will never make sense. I do believe you were the one that tossed out all human logic. I didn't. I only toss out human logic when that logic says the Bible is wrong and it seemed to me that you were trying to call the Bible wrong based on human logic.

[Justin108]

The problem here is that your stuck on is that only one way to see the future. What I'm insisting on is that God doesn't see the future as you logically think there is only one way to see the future.

Everything I said up until this point was using my human logic. Since that is not reliable (according to you) we will need to start over.

So starting over: can God see into the future? Yes or no?

[2timothy316]

The problem here is that your stuck on is that only one way to see the future. What I'm insisting on is that God doesn't see the future as you logically think there is only one way to see the future.

Everything I said up until this point was using my human logic. Since that is not reliable (according to you) we will need to start over.

So starting over: can God see into the future? Yes or no?

Yes. Yet He doesn't see our individual choices before we are given a choice.

[Justin108]

The problem here is that your stuck on is that only one way to see the future. What I'm insisting on is that God doesn't see the future as you logically think there is only one way to see the future.

Everything I said up until this point was using my human logic. Since that is not reliable (according to you) we will need to start over.

So starting over: can God see into the future? Yes or no?

Yes. Yet He doesn't see our individual choices before we are given a choice.

Then God can't see the future. How can God see the future (say... World War 2) without seeing individual choices (Hitler deciding to invade Poland)? How can God see WW2 without seeing Hitler's decision to invade Poland? How can he see the one without seeing the other?

[2timothy316]

The problem here is that your stuck on is that only one way to see the future. What I'm insisting on is that God doesn't see the future as you logically think there is only one way to see the future.

Everything I said up until this point was using my human logic. Since that is not reliable (according to you) we will need to start over.

So starting over: can God see into the future? Yes or no?

Yes. Yet He doesn't see our individual choices before we are given a choice.

Then God can't see the future. How can God see the future (say... World War 2) without seeing individual choices (Hitler deciding to invade Poland)? How can God see WW2 without seeing Hitler's decision to invade Poland? How can he see the one without seeing the other?

Well, this is were our human logic fails us as someone else pointed out earlier.

Taken to its logical conclusion, the idea that God foreknows all decisions would mean that he is responsible for all that happens"including wars, injustices, and suffering. If God said looks ahead 200 years before Hitler is born and foreordains all of his choices then that is set in stone. It can't change and He'd be the reason it can't change. But how is that possible if the Bible says that God can never be the reason behind the evils a person desires. (James 1:13,14) Why is He telling people to choose, when the choice has been made? (Deuteronomy 30:19)

The Bible doesn't support that He knows all choices because of the evils that would be tied to God. This is where human logic fails us because we don't all available knowledge to understand how He is able know what He knows while the Bible says that He can't be responsible for bad things that happen to good people. Even Ecclesiastes 9:11 says, "time and unexpected events overtake them [us] all."

So either our logic is right or the Bible is wrong. I personally always take the Bible over my logic.

wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102007165