Jehovah’s Witnesses only ones that will be saved?????

[Donray]

Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that only 144,000 people will go to heaven. God chooses these 144,000 individuals, the process began with the first century Christians and was completed in the year 1935. Of course from 1879 (the year the Watchtower started) till 1935 only faithful Jehovah’s Witnesses were chosen for this special role. All faithful Jehovah’s Witnesses not chosen to be among the 144,000 elite that go to heaven (those joining the Watchtower after 1935) will spend eternity on earth. All other people on the earth will be destroyed at war of Armageddon here on earth. This would also include any Jehovah's Witnesses who has been disfellowshipped or is otherwise unfaithful to the Watchtower and has not worked his or her way back into the good graces of the Watchtower by the time of Armageddon.

If one believes the JWs all other Christians and everyone that is not a JW will not go to heaven or live on the Earth after Armageddon.

Question for debate is JW the only true Christin religion or is it some type of cult that calls itself Christian?

[ttruscott]

"God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen," means they have been clearly proven.

No they have not, Could you provide your proof that they have been clearly proven to the Greeks in the 190 century BC? Bet you cannot.

Of course not - Christians are to have faith in GOD and HIS Bible where this teaching is found and we are to live by faith, not proof.

Explain how the Neanderthals knew? Bet you cannot.

IF they are humans created in the image of GOD then they knew the same as everyone else -

Please try to be logical about it and unless you know the bible existed back then don't use it.

Wooo, how demanding. Have I ever failed you with bad logic before?? If you want to trade personal criticisms and advice, I can play that game too but it is against the rules, eh?

Every person created in HIS image learned the gospel before any part of the universe was created from GOD HIMself. When HE created the physical universe before our very eyes, then we all had the proof of HIS power and Divinity as Rom 1:20 says... someone was there and sang HIS praises, Job 38:7, why not us?

[Donray]

Question, what happens to all the people that died and knew nothing about Jesus? This is millions of people born before 800 BC. Jews had multiple gods before then.

What about the people that currently know nothing about Jesus?

Does God send all these to hell?

There is nobody in all of history that does not know about Jesus and who has not either put their faith in Him or put their faith in Him being a liar so that none have an excuse. Romans 1:20 For since / from the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. "God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen," means they have been clearly proven.

All folks who claim to never have heard of Him nor seen the proof have repressed their memories of the proof due to their love for sin more than their love for truth as the rest of Rom 1 explains in pretty straight forward terms.

Please explain how people that lived in America in the lets say 15 century BC knew about Jesus?

Explain how the Greeks that lived in the 10th century BC knew about Jesus?

If Jesus existed, he did not exist before 0 BC so you need to explain how they know, Are you just making things up?

Christian topics new to you, eh? I and most of the Christian world view Christ as an eternal member of the GODLY UNITY, always existing. John 1 says He was the one who actually created all of reality.

Now, this verse: Colossians 1:23 ...if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant. The gospel that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven includes all of humans ever created from the beginning of creation to the end, so you have no need to worry for them. Everyone in all time has heard the facts of the good news that though we are sinners, we can be saved by HIS grace through faith. AS for HOW did they hear, I contend for a theology based upon our having been created first as spirits before any part of the physical universe was created. As spirits we were created innocent with a free will with an equal ability and opportunity to choose to be perfect in HIS opinion, conforming to HIS holiness, OR we could choose to reject HIM and HIS plans for us and become eternally evil, needing to be banished from HIS reality.

HE separated everyone into two groups, those who trusted HE was telling the truth about being GOD and who wanted to live in heaven with HIM and those who thought HE was a false god and a liar. HE did this by asking us to put our faith in HIM and HIS claims and choosing which we wanted for our happiness the most, life with HIM or not. At this same time HE offered a promise to anywho would put their faith in HIM that once they chose to bow to HIM HE would elect/choose them to be HIS bride in heaven and if they should ever sin, they would be saved from any and every sin by HIS Son, the Christ.

In this way, every person in all of creation heard the gospel and so knew Christ and His promise. After the choosing was done GOD created the physical universe and all sinners were sent to earth "to live together" as the parable says. Humans have no memory of their life in Sheol because as Romans 1 says rather repeatedly, our minds were clouded by sin and we repressed the proof of HIS Deity because we loved sin more than the truth.

Since you said nothing I guess you believe that Neanderthals did exist along humans and they where also created by God.

Is GODLY UNITY the same as the TRINITY????

Which religious denomination/cult do you belong to or that your beliefs are in agreement with? The are thousand of different Christian religions and they all don't agree with each other.

Tell if I am wring, but what are saying is that God/Jesus puts into every human at conception a (soul/sprit) that God/Jesus creates and places it somewhere in the body. Therefore a baby knows about the Trinity and the difference between good and bad. Do I have it correct so far?
All children are born knowing the Trinity and good and evil. They then using free will chose to ignore the (sprit/soul) that the Trinity exists and not get to haven.

Do I have it right thus far????????

[ttruscott]

Since you said nothing I guess you believe that Neanderthals did exist along humans and they where also created by God.

How do I discuss with a person who calls a logical, thoughtful page of theology, nothing? You understood nothing??? Yikes.

You said:

Explain how the Neanderthals knew? Bet you cannot.

I replied:

IF they are humans created in the image of GOD then they knew the same as everyone else -

which I then explained at length.

Is GODLY UNITY the same as the TRINITY????

YES

Tell if I am wring,

easily done...

but what are saying is that God/Jesus puts into every human at conception a (soul/sprit) that God/Jesus creates and places it somewhere in the body.

There are three methods suggested of getting our spirits into our bodies to form a soul. They are not the same.

1. called creationism of the spirit - refers to GOD creating a new spirit in every baby at its birth,

2. called traducianism in which it is suggested that GOD has set up our genetics in Adam so that our spirit is created and received in our bodies by our genetic inheritance at conception.

3. called pre-conception existence or pre-existence in which it is supposed that GOD created all spirits in HIS image as the first part of creation (before the physical universe) and there has been no creation of any spirit / person after the 6th day when HE started HIS rest.

These spirits created before the physical universe are sown into the world of humans (like scattering wheat) by the Son of Man and the devil, each sowing his own people into mankind: Matt 13:36-39. This is the doctrine I adhere to and which underlies all my thinking and posts.

Therefore a baby knows about the Trinity and the difference between good and bad. Do I have it correct so far?

All children are born knowing the Trinity and good and evil. [/quote] NO, they are not born knowing though everyone has seen the proof of YHWH's power and divinity but because sinners reject the truth and repress their memories of the proof in favour of their sin, and since only sinners are born as humans, none remember the proof of the divinity of the Trinity nor their own sinfulness.

They then using free will chose to ignore the (sprit/soul) that the Trinity exists and not get to haven.

No sinner has a free will. The immediate effect of choosing sin is to have our mind clouded by sin which overwhelms our free will and controls it to evil purposes.

But pre-earth, we did indeed have a free will and there, as you say, we used our free will to become sinners. Some became condemned by choosing to reject YHWH's divinity altogether calling HIS promises about heaven lies, while others became HIS elect by accepting HIS divinity to come under HIS promise of heaven and salvation yet later rebelled against the judgment of the condemned ones.

[Donray]

Since you said nothing I guess you believe that Neanderthals did exist along humans and they where also created by God.

How do I discuss with a person who calls a logical, thoughtful page of theology, nothing? You understood nothing??? Yikes.

You said:

Explain how the Neanderthals knew? Bet you cannot.

I replied:

IF they are humans created in the image of GOD then they knew the same as everyone else -

which I then explained at length.

Is GODLY UNITY the same as the TRINITY????

YES

Tell if I am wring,

easily done...

but what are saying is that God/Jesus puts into every human at conception a (soul/sprit) that God/Jesus creates and places it somewhere in the body.

There are three methods suggested of getting our spirits into our bodies to form a soul. They are not the same.

1. called creationism of the spirit - refers to GOD creating a new spirit in every baby at its birth,

2. called traducianism in which it is suggested that GOD has set up our genetics in Adam so that our spirit is created and received in our bodies by our genetic inheritance at conception.

3. called pre-conception existence or pre-existence in which it is supposed that GOD created all spirits in HIS image as the first part of creation (before the physical universe) and there has been no creation of any spirit / person after the 6th day when HE started HIS rest.

These spirits created before the physical universe are sown into the world of humans (like scattering wheat) by the Son of Man and the devil, each sowing his own people into mankind: Matt 13:36-39. This is the doctrine I adhere to and which underlies all my thinking and posts.

Therefore a baby knows about the Trinity and the difference between good and bad. Do I have it correct so far?

All children are born knowing the Trinity and good and evil.

NO, they are not born knowing though everyone has seen the proof of YHWH's power and divinity but because sinners reject the truth and repress their memories of the proof in favour of their sin, and since only sinners are born as humans, none remember the proof of the divinity of the Trinity nor their own sinfulness.

They then using free will chose to ignore the (sprit/soul) that the Trinity exists and not get to haven.

No sinner has a free will. The immediate effect of choosing sin is to have our mind clouded by sin which overwhelms our free will and controls it to evil purposes.

But pre-earth, we did indeed have a free will and there, as you say, we used our free will to become sinners. Some became condemned by choosing to reject YHWH's divinity altogether calling HIS promises about heaven lies, while others became HIS elect by accepting HIS divinity to come under HIS promise of heaven and salvation yet later rebelled against the judgment of the condemned ones.[/quote]

So, JWs are sinners and going to hell since they don't belive in the trinity!!!!!!!!!!

[ttruscott]

So, JWs are sinners and going to hell since they don't belive in the trinity!!!!!!!!!!

Gee, so many exclamation marks. You really think you've sprung a trap, eh? I clearly said ONLY SINNERS ARE BORN AS HUMAN (I like caps better) and though some of these sinners are elect and under the promise of salvation, their evil is as evil as the most evil demon going to hell.

I don't pick on JWs especially, nor Hutus, nor pagans. My own sins were much worse that the JWs I've met. Iow, the sinful elect are spread throughout cultures and churches and has nothing to do with Churches and sectarianism, imCo of course. Churches are not saved, some few sinners in all churches are saved. Belief in dogma as fact does not save, belief as trust and faith in Him as saviour saves.

I have faith in a Christ who can save anyone anywhere and their wrong beliefs will be fixed since that is HIS promise to us, not by our works but by HIS grace through faith.

[onewithhim]

Question, what happens to all the people that died and knew nothing about Jesus? This is millions of people born before 800 BC. Jews had multiple gods before then.

What about the people that currently know nothing about Jesus?

Does God send all these to hell?

I know you have been on these threads for a long time. Yet you have not heard from anyone the often-explained answers to your questions? My gosh, I can remember explaining those things many times.

All the people who died and knew nothing about Jesus will be resurrected in Paradise during Jesus' Millennial Reign, and then they will be taught.

"Having hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15)

This goes for anyone today who has not been taught the truth, as well.

And I'm also surprised that you and others keep talking about God sending people to "hell." Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in hell-fire as is taught in the churches, and we have provided much evidence to show that it is not taught in the Bible.


.

[Blastcat]

I know you have been on these threads for a long time. Yet you have not heard from anyone the often-explained answers to your questions? My gosh, I can remember explaining those things many times.

Yeah, we get a lot of that kind of thing in here.
Whataryagonnado?

[Donray]

All the people who died and knew nothing about Jesus will be resurrected in Paradise during Jesus' Millennial Reign, and then they will be taught.

"Having hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15)

This goes for anyone today who has not been taught the truth, as well.

And I'm also surprised that you and others keep talking about God sending people to "hell." Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in hell-fire as is taught in the churches, and we have provided much evidence to show that it is not taught in the Bible.


.

Your god sounds a lot better then ttruscott's god. Under ttruscott's god all GWs go to hell.

Why do all these different Christian cults/denominations have different view of almost everything?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 308 by Donray]

Your god sounds a lot better then ttruscott's god. Under ttruscott's god all GWs go to hell.

My god is better than theirs.. my god gets rid of them both.

[JehovahsWitness]

Question, what happens to all the people that died and knew nothing about Jesus? [...] What about the people that currently know nothing about Jesus?

The bible promises the following

ACTS 24:15
There shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

This means that God will bring back to life on this our planet earth many people who have died in the past. They will be reunited with their loved ones in perfect health to live on this planet earth under ideal conditions. The righteous would refer to men and women in the past that served the True God Jehovah and did his will, individuals such as Abraham, Moses, King David, Joshua, Ruth, Sarah, and many others mentioned in the bible as well as individuals of our modern era who have died having served Jehovah God faithfully.

# Who are "the wicked" that God has also promised to resurrect?

These would be people that lead "wicked" or godless lives or otherwise failed to live up to God's standards. These "wicked" or "unrighteous" people would included the millions of people that lived and died without a knowledge of the bible or of Christ and thus lived godless lives out of ignorance. While most religions say these people will be bought back to immediately be judged for how they lived their lives, this would be unjust if they lived their lives ignorant of the truth from God's word, so they will be given a chance to learn and if they so wish conform to God's standards. The criminal that died along side Jesus would be and example of such ones; he evidently lead a life that did not conform to God's standards but will come back to life on this paradise earth to be given a chance to learn about Jesus and conform his life to God's standards.

Those that do so will be offered the opportunity to live forever on this our planet earth. Those that chose to persist in their wicked ways, despite their being educated otherwise, will not.

# Does that mean that everybody, good or bad that has ever lived will be resurrected (come back to life)?

No, the bible speaks of some people being condemned to everlasting death. Certain Pharisee are spoken of in these terms. Only those God judges as not being incorrigibly wicked will be ressurrected, those not deemed as being worthy of this opportunity will are spoken of as being in "gehenna" symbolizing eternal death from which there can be no hope of a resurection.

Further Reading
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/maga ... t_index]=8