Do you have the hope of going to heaven

[JehovahsWitness]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I do not have a hope of going to heaven (when I speak of "heaven" I mean the spiritual abode/realm where God lives).

- Do you personally entertain the hope of going to heaven to spend eternity with God when you die? (if this question is too personal I respect if you do not want to share this information)

- If so, do you believe such a literal spiritual realm exists?

- Do you believe that Jesus is presently in heaven where God exists?



* My question is for people that do believe that a God exists, since I presume that those that do not believe in God do believe he exists anywhere and therefore there is no "heaven" where God is.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 1 by JehovahsWitness]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I do not have a hope of going to heaven

Out of sheer curiosity, can you please outline what you mean by the above phrase?
Do you mean
1) It is not likely, to the point of virtual impossibility, that you will go to heaven
2) You do not have a desire, a wish, to go to heaven?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 1 by JehovahsWitness]



[center]
Theological disagreement[/center]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I do not have a hope of going to heaven (when I speak of "heaven" I mean the spiritual abode/realm where God lives).

As an outsider to the Christian faith, I should say that I don't believe in Heaven as a real place. And it seems to me that the JW version of it is just as unbelievable.

From how I understand their belief, "Heaven" is the planet Earth. We are all "already there". Ok, that's nice.

I suppose, that for some people "Hell" is on Earth, too.

Hell, heaven, God, Satan.. all of these are just imaginary as far as I know.

I think of them as "metaphors".
Projections, if you will, of our hopes, dreams, fantasies, and fears.

A lot of people hope that they can never die.


It must be a comfort for them to believe that they wont.


From my perspective, of course, I watch people argue as to what heaven is supposed to be, and when and where.

[American Deist]

[Replying to post 1 by JehovahsWitness]

Heaven comes from the Greek ouranos, and it has three different meanings:

1. God's dwelling place
2. The cosmos
3. The sky

You specified #1, so we'll talk about that.

No, I do not expect to go to God's dwelling place. However, according to Scipture, the final destination for those who are "saved" will be Paradise on New Earth, per Revelation 21. Jesus even tells the thief on the cross that he will be with him in Paradise (future tense).

So, strictly biblically speaking, the afterlife for those who pass judgment, will be New Earth (Paradise), not Heaven. [Rev. 20, 21]

[ttruscott]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I do not have a hope of going to heaven (when I speak of "heaven" I mean the spiritual abode/realm where God lives).

where GOD lives... GOD to me is all present so I already live where HE lives. But HE also likes to show HIS glory in specific places, the Shekinah:

Accordingly, in classic Jewish thought, the Shekhinah refers to a dwelling or settling in a special sense, a dwelling or settling of divine presence, to the effect that, while in proximity to the Shekinah, the connection to God is more readily perceivable.

I expect the heavenly state of bliss to be a communion of loving holiness and telepathic communication throughout all of HIS reality wherever HIS people may go, a state called our marriage to HIM, our GOD, and everyone else within that marriage. As sex is the earthly symbol of the union of two as one, so is earthly marriage a symbol of the union of all into one unity, the heavenly communion.

Perfect loving communion as the essence of our marriage will be our heaven.

But even within this bliss, 1 Corinthians 3:8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor.
and
Romans 2:6 God "will repay each person according to what they have done." and other like verses suggest that all may not be equal.

In other words, while all will be as full of the glory of GOD as they can take not all will be able to enjoy the same amount. Iow, my cup of ability to enjoy GOD may be much smaller than your cup though both our cups will be perfectly full and we will be perfectly happy with that. Some, those who chose to be more righteous than I, will stand closer to the Shekinah than I will be able to stand. I will bask in HIS glory to my utmost but the holy angels will bask much closer than I, in the greater heat.

But always, no matter where I go or what I do, I will be dwelling within HIS glory and within the marriage communion.

[JehovahsWitness]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I do not have a hope of going to heaven (when I speak of "heaven" I mean the spiritual abode/realm where God lives).

where GOD lives... GOD to me is all present so I already live where HE lives.

Well good for you. Then the OP doesn't apply to you because it is speaking of those that don't believe they are already in heaven. Congratulations, god's speed and say hello to Gabriel for me.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by JehovahsWitness]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I do not have a hope of going to heaven

Out of sheer curiosity, can you please outline what you mean by the above phrase?
Do you mean
1) It is not likely, to the point of virtual impossibility, that you will go to heaven
2) You do not have a desire, a wish, to go to heaven?

1 & 2. I have no desire to go to heaven and (all things being equal ie unless something in my life radically changes) I think it is virtually if not totally impossible I will go there.



JW

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 1 by JehovahsWitness]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I do not have a hope of going to heaven

Out of sheer curiosity, can you please outline what you mean by the above phrase?
Do you mean
1) It is not likely, to the point of virtual impossibility, that you will go to heaven
2) You do not have a desire, a wish, to go to heaven?

1 & 2. I have no desire to go to heaven and (all things being equal ie unless something in my life radically changes) I think it is virtually if not totally impossible I will go there.



JW

Where do you think you will go?

[Wootah]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I do not have a hope of going to heaven (when I speak of "heaven" I mean the spiritual abode/realm where God lives).

- Do you personally entertain the hope of going to heaven to spend eternity with God when you die? (if this question is too personal I respect if you do not want to share this information)

- If so, do you believe such a literal spiritual realm exists?

- Do you believe that Jesus is presently in heaven where God exists?



* My question is for people that do believe that a God exists, since I presume that those that do not believe in God do believe he exists anywhere and therefore there is no "heaven" where God is.

Spending eternity with God in the fullness of that relationship is exactly what I expect Jesus died on the cross for.

[Divine Insight]

If I may I would like to ask why you posted this in Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma? Are you asking for theological or doctrine support for answers given? Your question sounds more like just asking people for their opinions.

Having asked that I would like to give my reply to your questions and comments:

Let me start by addressing you qualifying note:

* My question is for people that do believe that a God exists, since I presume that those that do not believe in God do believe he exists anywhere and therefore there is no "heaven" where God is.

Intellectually I'm agnostic. Meaning that I cannot say with any certainty whether a God of any kind might or might not exist. I also openly confess that from a purely intellectual perspective it seems far more likely that there is no God than otherwise. But that doesn't mean that a God of some kind doesn't exist. I'm sure you are well aware that I can't see how the Biblical God could exist as described verbatim by the Bible. But even many Christians are willing to dismiss the Bible in terms of being literally true verbatim, so I'm hardly alone on that point.

Intuitively a romantic mystic. Meaning that I both intuitively "feel" that there is indeed something mystical and magical going on on, and I romantically would like to believe that this is indeed true. So from this perspective I'm very much in the same situation as many hopeful theists. In this sense I do 'hope' there is a God. But I'm quick to confess that I hope it isn't literally verbatim as the Bible describes.

Having said all of the above, I feel that I am still qualified to discuss the rumors attributed to the man named Jesus. I personally have good reasons to believe that Jesus may have very well been a mystic-minded Jew who was well educated in Mahayana Buddhism. Therefore I can speak to various things the Gospel rumors attribute to Jesus having supposedly said.

- Do you believe that Jesus is presently in heaven where God exists?

I have no idea where Jesus might be. In a parable Jesus supposedly said, "Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

He also is said to have proclaimed, "I and my Father are one"

Since I see Jesus as ultimately being a Pantheist I imagine that we are all Jesus in that sense and so Jesus is in everyone just as he was in the body they called "Jesus" at that time.

- Do you personally entertain the hope of going to heaven to spend eternity with God when you die? (if this question is too personal I respect if you do not want to share this information)

I'm not sure exactly where heaven is, or how it is defined. Can you provide for me any scripture that suggests where or what heaven is?

I do know that Jesus was often attributed to preaching, "For the kingdom of heaven is at hand".

Everyone interprets these words differently, but since I see Jesus as someone who is teaching mystical pantheism the idea that heaven is the here and now makes perfect sense. This doesn't mean that the here and now (i.e. heaven) will also be as we currently experience it. After all the here and now is ever-changing, and this is actually a very well-taught idea in Pantheism.

So I'm not sure if "Heaven" needs to always be perfect. In fact, if heaven was always perfect then how could there have ever been a "Fall from Grace" in the first place? That's a self-contradiction in orthodox Christianity as well. And this is especially true if we allow for Lucifer rebelling against God along with a full third of God's angels. That would have had to have happened in Heaven.

But let me get back to your question and respond to the question specifically in more detail:

I'm not personally too excited about going off to some spiritual heaven. I have no clue what that would even be like so how could I find it attractive until I have some understanding of what it is?

I also confess to being totally addicted to the physical world. I LOVE physical things. And I make no apologies for it. I don't personally buy into the idea that the physical world should be shunned or is undesirable. In fact, think bout it. What does the Bibel have to say about the physical World that God has supposedly created in 6 days?

Well, since this is posted in Theology, Doctrine and Dogma let's take a look at what the Bible says:

Gen.1

[4] And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
[10] And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
[12] And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[18] And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
[21] And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[25] And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[31] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

According to Genesis the God that created the physical world saw that it was GOOD.

So how in the world the the physical world become something to shun as being "not good"? This is yet another oxymoron of the Biblical religion.

When I look at the physical world I see it as being generally "Good" too. Although I'm not pleased with animals the bite, etc. But the Bible doesn't say that God saw that it was PERFECT. Nope. It was merely "Good" not even "Great"?

In any case, I would imagine that a creator of the physical world should be happy when people find the physical world to be enjoyable and attractive. And I do. There are countless things I would like to be able to play with in the physical world. Far more than I could have done in a single human lifetime even if I were filthy rich. But being the poor pauper that I am I didn't even get to experience much of it as all.

So I would actually much rather have an extended life on a physical planet like the Earth, possibly without mosquitoes and people like Donald Trump. But other than that everything else isn't too bad.

Now getting back to Jesus:

I don't see Jesus offering heaven so much as offering eternal life.

He also said in the Beatitudes: "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."

That's good enough for me right there.

I just wonder what condition it will be in by the time the meek inherit it? It might not be to pretty after Donald Trump launches all his freshly purchased nukes.

But yeah, I would rather inherit the Earth. Hopefully in a restorable condition.

- If so, do you believe such a literal spiritual realm exists?

If there is a magical "God" who could do things like offer meek souls a restored planet that would be great. Such a "God" (or Gods) would no doubt need to reside in a higher dimension than the one we are currently experiencing.

I would imagine that if this is the situation there would probably come a time when we would eventually evolve to a point where we move on to the spiritual realm. But for me personally I'd rather experience the physical world a little more first.

The spiritual world might be great. But it might also be boring. And maybe that's why we're here in the first place. Maybe we are spiritual beings that chose to become physical incarnated for a while to break the boredom of being omniscient spirits.

Who knows what the truth of reality is?

If there is a spiritual realm, we will most likely find out when we die in this physical incarnation. For better or for worse.

If there is no spiritual realm then when we die we won't know anything at all, including the fact that we had ever existed at all. At that point in time it will all be for naught and we may as well have never existed. Even though it was fun whilst it lasted.

I have mixed feelings. Like I say, intellectually the whole spiritual magical thing seems "Too Good to be True". And unfortunately when things are too good to be true they usually turn out to not be true.

But then again, the whole idea that an entire universe can spring up out of nowhere and evolve to become filled with such complex living creatures, and stories, and inventions, and romance and emotions, and sagas, only to turn out to be nothing but a space burp,...

Well that actually sounds "Too Good To be True" too! So either way, something is too good to be true.