When do we accept God's utter defeat?

[Willum]

According to the Bible, Satan defeated God ~10,000 years ago, instilling death, evil, and imperfection into the world.

God was unable to do anything about it, except of course, punish the victims. Which he has done according to the Bible many times, including a terracide, and the promise of one to come.

We hear songs and such about his triumph and victory, but let's face it; God was completely trounced by Satan, and the only thing we've heard from him is a good talk and excuses. The sending of his son, didn't really do anything measurable, except fanfare.

So assuming the Bible is true and all that, but taking it it in the light of history, and with a grain of salt, just how long before we acknowledge God lost at the starting line, and has been defeated at every turn, since?

What does this really say about the entity?

[1213]

According to the Bible, Satan defeated God ~10,000 years ago, instilling death, evil, and imperfection into the world....

Sorry, I don’t see Satan winning. In Biblical point of view, Satan can’t do anything without God allowing it. And God allowed people to reject Him and take this hard lesson about good and right. God has prepared way from this death to eternal life and nothing of this world can destroy soul, which is the important thing, not the body.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 21 by 1213]

As was mentioned before, this is so "the loser's" version of history.

God whines:

"Satan only won because I allowed him to!"
"He couldn't even despoil all of reality unless I permitted it!"

"Look over here, me losing isn't important, your immortal soul is!"
"Where is heaven, where is your immortal soul? You can't know until you're dead."

"Everything Satan destroyed isn't important anymore! Only what doesn't exist,[ and therefore can't be proven that I can lose,] is important!"

See, again, take the facts the Bible describes, talking serpents floods, and then seperate them from the claims, words and future promises, and see who kicked whose posterior.

10,000 years of misery and sin, vs 10,000 years of "but Satan broke it, and I won't fix it because it is your fault!"

Translation: God is powerless to fix Satan's efforts.

[Joe1950]

[Replying to 1213]

If Satan powerless in relation to God,then it follows that God is quite cruel to allow Satan to act.

[1213]

[Replying to post 21 by 1213]

As was mentioned before, this is so "the loser's" version of history.

God whines:

"Satan only won because I allowed him to!"
"He couldn't even despoil all of reality unless I permitted it!"

"Look over here, me losing isn't important, your immortal soul is!"
"Where is heaven, where is your immortal soul? You can't know until you're dead."

"Everything Satan destroyed isn't important anymore! Only what doesn't exist,[ and therefore can't be proven that I can lose,] is important!"

See, again, take the facts the Bible describes, talking serpents floods, and then seperate them from the claims, words and future promises, and see who kicked whose posterior.

10,000 years of misery and sin, vs 10,000 years of "but Satan broke it, and I won't fix it because it is your fault!"

Translation: God is powerless to fix Satan's efforts.

You are attributing quite a lot quotes for God. That is quite interesting from a person that I have understood is an atheist and doesn’t believe in God. Perhaps it would be safer to remain in just what the Bible tells, and not put own words to God’s mouth.

Anyway, I disagree with your opinion. I don’t think God is powerless, the point is just that we can learn what evil means, that is why we have this temporary lesson where we can really learn what evil means.

[1213]

[Replying to 1213]

If Satan powerless in relation to God,then it follows that God is quite cruel to allow Satan to act.

God is allowing us to know what evil means. I think that is not cruel.

[MuffMaYne]

[Replying to post 19 by Divine Insight]

If the Bible is true then

No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.- John 10:18

As for majority of souls being sent to Hell, well thats free will, you choose that path. At best is a lost battle for that soul, not a lost war.

Who reigns supreme at the end forever? God, obviously.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 24 by 1213]

I am just applying a consistent logical interpretation of scripture.
This way, the Bible makes sense.

God creates something.
God can't stop Satan from despoiling it.
God can't repair the damage either.

and so on, to Jesus just before...

[Joe1950]

[Replying to post 25 by 1213]

I say god is cruel if she allows Satan to do evil deeds. If you believe that satan is harming people and that god has the power to stop satan, then it follows logically that god is allowing evil to be done. If I see a child sitting on the railroad tracks and do nothing to help the child, by my way of thinking that is cruel.

Also, from much of the Old Testament I have read it seems as though god not only allows, but sometimes demands acts of cruelty. He allows incest, rape and even condones genocide and stealing land. If this idea of god is acceptable then this god can hardly condemn men for killing or other crimes without being a hypocrite. He or she has done much worse than most of us would ever dream of doing.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 28 by Joe1950]

Yeah, so God performs acts of cruelty as well.
I presume he would not do this before the fall, therefore we can assume God was corrupted by the apple eating as well.

Before he would not allow incest between Lot and his daughters, he would not allow nephilim to further corrupt men, after his actions are, well, fallen.

This is the subject of a new OP!

[Joe1950]

[Replying to post 28 by Joe1950]

Yeah, so God performs acts of cruelty as well.
I presume he would not do this before the fall, therefore we can assume God was corrupted by the apple eating as well.

Before he would not allow incest between Lot and his daughters, he would not allow nephilim to further corrupt men, after his actions are, well, fallen.

This is the subject of a new OP!

Was god corrupted by the eating of the forbidden fruit? I think he was cruel already. Maybe it is simply in the nature of god to be cruel. Why do I say this?
Well, he placed Adam and Eve in a lush paradise. A beautiful garden. Fantastic thing to do. They had it made in the shade.
Then, he places this luscious great looking fruit on a tree just where they can see it and reach it. Why did he do that? Why subject them to this temptation?
Then, Adam and Eve eat a piece of fruit. ONE piece of fruit from the entire Garden of Eden. Just ONE. Not a tree. They don't go on a rampage, Just ONE piece of fruit between the 2 of them.
What is god's response? He throws them out of the garden and makes them feel pain and misery and loneliness and fear and death. No warnings. No second chance. For ONE piece of fruit.
Is that not the ultimate cruelty? to give them paradise and then for an extremely minor offense take it all away.
And the worst thing is this. Since he is all knowing he KNEW they would take the fruit. He knew ahead of time they would fall for it and lose paradise. IS that not the ultimate cruelty?