Do you have the hope of going to heaven

[JehovahsWitness]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I do not have a hope of going to heaven (when I speak of "heaven" I mean the spiritual abode/realm where God lives).

- Do you personally entertain the hope of going to heaven to spend eternity with God when you die? (if this question is too personal I respect if you do not want to share this information)

- If so, do you believe such a literal spiritual realm exists?

- Do you believe that Jesus is presently in heaven where God exists?



* My question is for people that do believe that a God exists, since I presume that those that do not believe in God do believe he exists anywhere and therefore there is no "heaven" where God is.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 1 by JehovahsWitness]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I do not have a hope of going to heaven

1 & 2. I have no desire to go to heaven and (all things being equal ie unless something in my life radically changes) I think it is virtually if not totally impossible I will go there.
JW

That would imply that you know everything there is to know.
To take the stand that we know everything shuts the door to further learning.

Um, where did JehovahsWitness infer that she/he knows everything there is to know? I'm sure that that is not the case. In Paradise we will be learning forever. There is no end to knowledge.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 31 by onewithhim]



[center]
Some people like to pretend they have "knowledge", when they only have "belief"[/center]

There is no end to knowledge.

When some people think they know the absolute truth about something, the learning STOPS at that point. We see it all the time in here.. people have gone so far with their religious beliefs and have STOPPED at that point.

In fact, many have even gone so far as to brag about how closed they are to new ideas about their beliefs. That's not learning.

That's being closed minded, that's all.
To which I say : "That's too bad."

Unwavering belief is no substitute for knowledge or learning.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 32 by Blastcat]

I agree with that. I look forward to being able to truly learn, unhampered, for all time.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 32 by Blastcat]


"When some people think they know the absolute truth about something, the learning STOPS at that point. We see it all the time in here.. people have gone so far with their religious beliefs and have STOPPED at that point."

Same applies for non-religious people.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 34 by Monta]


[center]
Good for the goose, good for the gander[/center]

"When some people think they know the absolute truth about something, the learning STOPS at that point. We see it all the time in here.. people have gone so far with their religious beliefs and have STOPPED at that point."

Same applies for non-religious people.

I completely agree, Monta.

That's why I didn't single religious people out for this kind of biased approach. We all do it from time to time. We think we know something.. and it's "settled" in our mind.

As soon as someone becomes DOGMATIC in their beliefs about knowledge, that's the end of the discussion. We get a lot of that in here.

"God is real, and that is that."
End of discussion.

And if they were pursuing the truth, thinking one HAS the answer already, the end of their investigations. We get a lot of that in here, too.

"I got a revelation, and I confirmed it with the Bible, and that is that".
End of the investigation.

That's what happened to Issac Newton, by the way.. he attributed problems with his theory of motion to "GOD"... and stopped his investigation there. He moved on to less productive pursuits that he is NOT so well known or respected for...

They were religious, by the way, those pursuits.
I'd say a complete waste of his wonderful mind.

It took us more than 200 years before someone bothered to investigate past his "God" explanation. Einstein wasn't a theist.. so he didn't care about that God hypothesis.

____________

Question:

• 
  
  Are you quite sure that your religious beliefs are true?
  
  

____________

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 35 by Blastcat]

Wasn't Einstein a Deist? He basically believed that God created but then left his creation alone?

[tam]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I do not have a hope of going to heaven (when I speak of "heaven" I mean the spiritual abode/realm where God lives).

- Do you personally entertain the hope of going to heaven to spend eternity with God when you die? (if this question is too personal I respect if you do not want to share this information)

With Christ and God, yes. Not just being with them in heaven, mind you, but also upon the earth. Since the Bride (the New Jerusalem) comes down out of heaven. Rev 21:2


Christ said that we would be like the angels... and the angels can move between the two realms (physical and spiritual - earth and heaven). Just as Christ showed that He can do. Just as Adam could do before he was cast out of the garden (the spiritual realm).

Christ even said that His sheep would be able to come in and go out, and find pasture.

I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture. John 10:9

- If so, do you believe such a literal spiritual realm exists?

Certainly.

- Do you believe that Jesus is presently in heaven where God exists?

My Lord Jaheshua is at the right hand of God, yes.

But He is also here with me (and all who belong to Him) by means of holy spirit (which is the water of Life that Christ gives; the anointing of holy spirit; the breath that He poured out upon His apostles, and others, after His resurrection).


Which is how the Kingdom is also within us, as He said. Because the KING is in us (and us in Him), by means of holy spirit (the blood, breath, seed of Jah - which Jah has given to His Son without end, and that His Son pours out and gives to whomever He chooses).




May any who wish them be given ears to hear so as to hear the Spirit and the Bride say, "Come!" Many anyone who thirsts, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life."



Peace to you and to your household,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 36 by onewithhim]



[center]

His theology was as messy as his hair[/center]

Wasn't Einstein a Deist? He basically believed that God created but then left his creation alone?

I'm not too sure.. some people call his brand of "faith" Pantheism, because the way he describes "the old man" is identical to "universe".

He was ambiguous... And he is dead.

"Einstein used many labels to describe his religious views, including "agnostic". "religious nonbeliever"and a believer in "Spinoza's God". Although he expressed his conception of God as "pantheistic" he also stated, "I do not think I can call myself a pantheist."Einstein believed the problem of God was the "most difficult in the world"—a question that could not be answered "simply with yes or no." He conceded that, "the problem involved is too vast for our limited minds.""

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious ... rsonal_God

That COULD mean "deism", and in a way.. pantheism is deism, I suppose. In any case, Einstein didn't seem to want to be associated with ATHEISTS.. He sometimes called himself an agnostic, whatever he meant by THAT.

I think that Einstein was more of a genius in math and physics than theology or biology. Meh.. people have specialties. My take away is that Einstein didn't spend a lot of time thinking about defining his religious beliefs ( or lack of them ). If he did.. he had such a FINE mind.. that he might have formulated a great and unambiguous idea about it like the E=mc2.

That one is complicated to explain to outsiders, but as about as clear as it gets to those who understand the math and the physics of it.

I'm PRETTY sure that Einstein was not a theist, though... No anthropomorphic god for that messy haired guy.

[onewithhim]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I do not have a hope of going to heaven (when I speak of "heaven" I mean the spiritual abode/realm where God lives).

- Do you personally entertain the hope of going to heaven to spend eternity with God when you die? (if this question is too personal I respect if you do not want to share this information)

With Christ and God, yes. Not just being with them in heaven, mind you, but also upon the earth. Since the Bride (the New Jerusalem) comes down out of heaven. Rev 21:2


Christ said that we would be like the angels... and the angels can move between the two realms (physical and spiritual - earth and heaven). Just as Christ showed that He can do. Just as Adam could do before he was cast out of the garden (the spiritual realm).

Christ even said that His sheep would be able to come in and go out, and find pasture.

I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture. John 10:9

- If so, do you believe such a literal spiritual realm exists?

Certainly.

- Do you believe that Jesus is presently in heaven where God exists?

My Lord Jaheshua is at the right hand of God, yes.

But He is also here with me (and all who belong to Him) by means of holy spirit (which is the water of Life that Christ gives; the anointing of holy spirit; the breath that He poured out upon His apostles, and others, after His resurrection).


Which is how the Kingdom is also within us, as He said. Because the KING is in us (and us in Him), by means of holy spirit (the blood, breath, seed of Jah - which Jah has given to His Son without end, and that His Son pours out and gives to whomever He chooses).




May any who wish them be given ears to hear so as to hear the Spirit and the Bride say, "Come!" Many anyone who thirsts, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life."



Peace to you and to your household,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Two scriptural subjects need to be clearly understood here.

(1)Revelation 21:2. "New Jerusalem" coming down is no more literal than the Bride of Christ being a literal city. The Bride of Christ---New Jerusalem---consists of Christ's anointed co-rulers who will rule over the earth from heaven. This composite "city" will "come down" in the sense that , for example, God Himself has "come down" to the earth to "dwell with" humans in the past. Has he literally done so? No. The planet cannot contain the Creator of the universe.

"Will God truly dwell upon the earth? The heaven of the heavens cannot contain you; how much less, then, this house [temple] that I have built!" (I Kings 8:27, words of King Solomon)

God said, in times of old:

"I will consecrate the tent of meeting and the altar....I will dwell among the sons of Israel and will be their God. They shall know that I am the LORD their God who brought them out of the land of Egypt, that I might dwell among them; I am the LORD their God." (Exodus 29:45,46, NASB)

Did He literally come down to the earth and live with the Israelites?

I'm sure you will admit that He did not. So how are we to understand Revelation 21:2? Wouldn't it be in the same sense? God's love and attention will be toward the people of the earth who appreciate, love, and recognize Him as their God. Finally the earth will be just like He purposed it to be when He created it.



(2)Luke 17:21: Jesus said, "The kingdom of God is in your midst." Did he mean that the Kingdom was inside people? I don't think so. He always spoke as if the Kingdom was an actual government with rulers and subjects. He mentioned sitting on thrones and judging (Matthew 19:28; Matt.20:21-23)---certainly not something that would happen in someone's heart. So what did he mean? When he spoke the words of Luke 17, he was aiming his point at the Pharisees who were always trying to trip him up in some way, by telling them that the Kingdom---particularly the King of that Kingdom, which of course would represent the Kingdom, was there among them, right under their noses!

How could that Kingdom be a feeling or an idea in someone's heart, when the Bible describes it as a real government with Jesus as the King on a throne?

"A child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on his shoulders....There will be no end to the increase of his government or of peace, on the throne of David and over his kingdom." (Isaiah 9:6,7, NASB)

"The God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed....It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever." (Daniel 2:44, NASB)



Are the meanings of these two subjects clearer now?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 38 by Blastcat]

Thanks for that input, Blast. I think in many ways Darwin was of a like mind to that of Einstein, as you describe Albert. He thought that the human mind couldn't comprehend what God was, if he did indeed exist. He sometimes pondered the idea of a Creator of the magnificent universe, since the universe is so awesome, but then he would try not to think about it.

He said at one time: "My judgment often fluctuates...In my most extreme fluctuations I have never been an Atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God. I think that generally (and more and more as I grow older), but not always, that an Agnostic would be the more correct description of my state of mind." And: "I may say that the impossibility of conceiving that this grand and wondrous universe, with our conscious selves, arose through chance, seems to me the chief argument for the existence of God; but whether this is an argument of real value, I have never been able to decide....The safest conclusion seems to me that the whole subject is beyond the scope of man's intellect; but man can do his duty."

Also, in the last year of Darwin's life, the Duke of Argyll recorded a conversation with him: "In the course of that conversation I said to Mr. Darwin, with reference to some of his own remarkable works on the Fertilisation of Orchids, and upon The Earthworms, and various other observations he made of the wonderful contrivances for certain purposes in nature---I said it was impossible to look at these without seeing that they were the effect and the expression of mind. I shall never forget Mr. Darwin's answer. He looked at me very hard and said, 'Well, that often comes over me with overwhelming force; but at other times,' and he shook his head vaguely, adding, 'it seems to go away.'"

(Good Words, Duke of Argyll, April 1885, p.244; from The Life of Charles Darwin, by Francis Darwin, 1902, pp. 55-65)


I just think that the thinking of these great men is fascinating.