Paradise on Earth

[onewithhim]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 427 by onewithhim]

Woo woo. Like my mom used to say whenever "Trackdown" would come on, with Robert Culp, back in the '50s, 'cause she knew I loved Robert Culp. Woo woo!

WOO WOO.. lol.
That's kind of theme with us, right?

That show is even before MY time, I think.
I don't even know if we HAD a TV.. we were a bit poor and ignorant.

I don't think my folks read any books, either.
I started all of that when I had to go to school.

You ask, "why not 20"? Well, that may be, but we figure that by around 30 a person has developed all that he is going to physically develop, and we now start going down-hill after that, so it's safe to say that God would allow us to completely develop physically and then stop the aging.

"Safe to say"?
Well, I suppose as long as you feel safe, I guess.

That's a nice feeling.

My glory days were around 16 to 22.
Those days felt real nice to me.

(Also, Jesus grew up until he was 33 as a physical man. Could that be some hint as to how old people will allowed to grow to, or grow back to?)

No.

That was our first TV, I think, of course black and white with maybe 3 channels.

My folks were both teachers and thankfully had books around, especially Colliers Encyclopedia and books that came with it on different subjects, for children. I read all about Greek mythology, which was the most interesting to me at the time.

I think 16-22 were the worst years of my life. Kennedy was assassinated when I was 16 and I (as well as the nation) was devastated. Nothing felt safe after that. I continued to have difficult relations with my parents; it was a sick, dysfunctional house. The best thing to happen to me was having my first child at 22. Then I gradually came back to life. It has taken me all those years from then to now to truly get my life back, and especially my mind.

[marco]

We KNOW that the Bible promises a physical paradise Earth, and I have quoted many verses, so for people to grow old like we do now is unreasonable.

And the meaning of Paradise here would be some utopian place, not a park so I see no reason to assign this meaning to the word.

You informed me that babies continue to age until they reach 30. So aging does happen..... but only to the under thirties. Grandads of ninety return as thirty-year olds, unrecognised by their thirty-year old grandchildren. It seems like a fairy tale rather deficient in meaning. For what reason do people live in this truncated existence?

You ask, "What would the discoveries be for?" That is what "discovery" is---to find out new things. Do you think, possibly, that there are many more things that we do not know about on this planet and in the universe?

There is no disease, no hardship, no sinking of ships... what on earth are scientists at work for? Rhyme and reason have been vacuumed from existence - what meaning does research have?

[onewithhim]

We KNOW that the Bible promises a physical paradise Earth, and I have quoted many verses, so for people to grow old like we do now is unreasonable.

And the meaning of Paradise here would be some utopian place, not a park so I see no reason to assign this meaning to the word.

You informed me that babies continue to age until they reach 30. So aging does happen..... but only to the under thirties. Grandads of ninety return as thirty-year olds, unrecognised by their thirty-year old grandchildren. It seems like a fairy tale rather deficient in meaning. For what reason do people live in this truncated existence?

You ask, "What would the discoveries be for?" That is what "discovery" is---to find out new things. Do you think, possibly, that there are many more things that we do not know about on this planet and in the universe?

There is no disease, no hardship, no sinking of ships... what on earth are scientists at work for? Rhyme and reason have been vacuumed from existence - what meaning does research have?

Have you ever seen a utopian park? There are many, even now, though small in comparison with one encompassing the entire Earth. They are exquisite, and somebody pays a lot of money to have them cared for. Obviously, there are people who appreciate having a gorgeous park surrounding them. I think most people would find it amazing.

You ask for what reason people live in a "truncated existence" of being young and healthy. Maybe because they would be young and healthy?

Scientists are at work now to, among other things, find a CURE for diseases. Well, diseases will be gone in Paradise. How happy that should make people! Scientists will no longer have to slave long hours in their labs, relying on grants from Big Money to fund their research.

[marco]

Scientists are at work now to, among other things, find a CURE for diseases. Well, diseases will be gone in Paradise. How happy that should make people! Scientists will no longer have to slave long hours in their labs, relying on grants from Big Money to fund their research.

Ah, yes, the scientists, who must hate doing science, will be unemployed and free to wander in the park day after day after day after day picking a melon here and a peach out of season there or stroking a tiger or a scorpion which would be lying down eating grass with a lion. The celestial timetable of seasons will have changed so that winter doesn't come. This is imaginative but is it credible?

[onewithhim]

Scientists are at work now to, among other things, find a CURE for diseases. Well, diseases will be gone in Paradise. How happy that should make people! Scientists will no longer have to slave long hours in their labs, relying on grants from Big Money to fund their research.

Ah, yes, the scientists, who must hate doing science, will be unemployed and free to wander in the park day after day after day after day picking a melon here and a peach out of season there or stroking a tiger or a scorpion which would be lying down eating grass with a lion. The celestial timetable of seasons will have changed so that winter doesn't come. This is imaginative but is it credible?

Brrrrrother. Scientists will have more time to learn about other wonders in the universe, rather than spending their time trying to find cures for diseases!

Who said that winter won't come? The Bible says that the different seasons will always be. (Genesis 8:22)

[marco]

Brrrrrother. Scientists will have more time to learn about other wonders in the universe, rather than spending their time trying to find cures for diseases!

Who said that winter won't come? The Bible says that the different seasons will always be. (Genesis 8:22)

I am impressed by a person's ability to take the most harmless and ordinary of statements and endow them with prophetic power and eternal truth. The verse you mention says:

"While the earth remains, Seedtime and harvest, And cold and heat, And summer and winter, And day and night Shall not cease."

You have ignored the initial temporal clause, "while the earth remains." When the sun dies out of course the seasons will cease. The common sense interpretation is that as long as earth moves in its diurnal course, the seasons will come and go. Is this rocket science?

The absurd interpretation, and an unjustified one, is that for ever and ever the earth will last and seasons will pass. Nothing in these words gives that meaning. You have to assume a new earth, and then assume the seasonal conditions apply to this new earth. This has nothing to do with the quoted verse.

Your introductory exclamatory "Brrrrother" would suggest exasperation with my ignorance. I interpret words from what they obviously say not from what I would like them to say. If one uses loose, hopeful interpretations often enough, one changes Scripture completely.

[JehovahsWitness]

"While the earth remains, Seedtime and harvest, And cold and heat, And summer and winter, And day and night Shall not cease."

When the sun dies out of course the seasons will cease. .

Jehovah's Witness do not believe the "sun will die" because we believe in an omnipotent God. Of course this an atheist will say is impossible, but for us it is not we have a word for the impossible happening, its called a MIRACLE. Some may scoff and mock at the idea of "miracles" but it is a fundamental belief for many theists, not only Jehovah's Witnessess but many Catholics, Protestants and even for many non-christians: that God is capable of performing miracles.

So the reasoning is that there is an omnipotent God that will be able to do something miraculous, keep the sun functioning. The technical word for this is "A miracle" something Jehovah's Witnesses believe is possible because they believe in a omnipotent God.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 436 by marco]

I interpret words from what they obviously say not from what I would like them to say.

I can see that and of course doing so I can understand that a verse that says " summer and winter [...]Shall not cease." can be interpreted as meaning that there will be no more winter (ie winter will cease).

Jehovah's Witnesses however take the words "summer and winter ...will not cease" to mean, (and I can understand this will be controversal and some people will not understand how we can possibly come to such an absurd and unjustified interpretation) but we understand the verse that says "summer and winter shall not cease" to mean "summer and winter... will not cease". I know it's confusing but that is how we interpret the verse.

Each one their interpretation,

JW

[marco]

The technical word for this is "A miracle" something Jehovah's Witnesses believe is possible because they believe in a omnipotent God.

I see. Miracle can be defined as a figure of speech called into play when there are logical objections to a point being made. The sun WILL consume all its hydrogen and helium and die out as other stars do. The universe - God willing - functions in a way we understand. To claim that the sun will continue burning up its finite store for ever and an hour or two is claiming God acts illogically. He hasn't done so far so why should he start at some date in the future?

Surely when we reach an absurdity in our way of thinking, we should abandon our line of thought. That is the method used by mathematicians. And hey, it works, unlike a sun with no hydrogen! Have a good day.

[marco]

[Replying to post 436 by marco]

I interpret words from what they obviously say not from what I would like them to say.

I can see that and of course doing so I can understand that a verse that says " summer and winter [...]Shall not cease." can be interpreted as meaning that there will be no more winter (ie winter will cease).

Jehovah's Witnesses however take the words "summer and winter ...will not cease" to mean, (and I can understand this will be controversal and some people will not understand how we can possibly come to such an absurd and unjustified interpretation) but we understand the verse that says "summer and winter shall not cease" to mean "summer and winter... will not cease". I know it's confusing but that is how we interpret the verse.

Thanks for writing this because you've explained where you are making an error. You haven't quoted the entire statement. For example, if a doctor says:

"I am not saying the patient will die," and you quote him IN PART as saying "the patient will die," it is clear an error is being made.

Now let's go to Genesis and we'll see you have done exactly that.


The actual statement is:

"While the earth remains, Seedtime and harvest, And cold and heat, And summer and winter, And day and night Shall not cease."

and YOUR take on it is:
" Summer and winter shall not cease."

This is rather naughty of you since you have omitted an important clause that RESTRICTS the statement. "While the earth remains" carries a strong suggestion that it WON'T always remain. But you forgot to mention this. Tsk tsk.

Now what I am wondering is, if you can so easily and readily err in a simple case like this, what greater errors do JWs make over the whole of Scripture? A BIG question, no?