Do you have the hope of going to heaven

[JehovahsWitness]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I do not have a hope of going to heaven (when I speak of "heaven" I mean the spiritual abode/realm where God lives).

- Do you personally entertain the hope of going to heaven to spend eternity with God when you die? (if this question is too personal I respect if you do not want to share this information)

- If so, do you believe such a literal spiritual realm exists?

- Do you believe that Jesus is presently in heaven where God exists?



* My question is for people that do believe that a God exists, since I presume that those that do not believe in God do believe he exists anywhere and therefore there is no "heaven" where God is.

[OnceConvinced]

You were crying to Jehovah and not any other god; what convinced you that Jehovah is the God of heaven and earth? Of course if you are Jewish its understandable.

I was a Christian so I cried out to the god of the bible. I cried out to him because I had been a Christian all my life and that had been the god I'd always believed in.

After spending 40 years believing in one god, I have absolutely no desire to call out to any other. If there was another, then that god had plenty of opportunity to reply to my cries and say "Hey, OC, you're calling out to the wrong god." But nope. None did.

[onewithhim]

You were crying to Jehovah and not any other god; what convinced you that Jehovah is the God of heaven and earth? Of course if you are Jewish its understandable.

I was a Christian so I cried out to the god of the bible. I cried out to him because I had been a Christian all my life and that had been the god I'd always believed in.

After spending 40 years believing in one god, I have absolutely no desire to call out to any other. If there was another, then that god had plenty of opportunity to reply to my cries and say "Hey, OC, you're calling out to the wrong god." But nope. None did.

Well they are NOW.

[OnceConvinced]

So, the question remains, "why hasn't God answered my prayers?" (1) You were not praying to the God of the Bible (look at Psalm 83:18, KJV),

I was most definitely praying to the god of the bible. It was my intent to pray to him. It was in my heart to pray to him. If this god is real then he knows my heart and my intents as the scripture tells us he does.

Just some more clarification here for any JW that is interested. (or anyone else who is or was not a believer in the trinity). When I prayed I used various names to address God. But they were limited to these names, none other. I would use them quite regularly when I prayed: (In order of most commonly used)

Lord
Lord God
God
Father God
Lord Jesus

Notice only one of those names includes Jesus, which was used a lot less than the other four names.

Based on that, would you think God would reject my prayers simply because on the odd occasion I called him Lord Jesus, thinking that I was addressing him?

The reason I bring this up because it just seems so absurd to me that anyone would claim a believer in the trinity to be a false Christian simply because they believe Jesus is god. It just doesn't make any sense. A god who looks at our intents and hearts would know that we are addressing him, not some fallible human being or an idol or a pile of rocks.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 132 by onewithhim]

Are they? Sorry to say OWH, but I'm with OC on this. The only difference between him and myself is that he says 40 years, I say 28. There's a lot more to convincing an atheist skeptic there's a god calling than...well...saying simply there's a god calling.

In my own case, while growing up I never even knew there were other denominations of Christians. In my mind, as a child, there was just 'the Church' and that was it. So even in the situation where Jehovah is as OWH is painting him as...I do have to ask
1) Why allow information on the JW denomination to be so restricted?
2) Why wait until the late 1800s and the mid 1900s for the 'proper' denomination to be formed and the 'correct' translation of the Bible into English?

[OnceConvinced]

If you go back over your recent posts you will see that you said that God knows that everyone praying to their idols is praying TO HIM. By saying that, you are agreeing with the use of idols in prayer & worship.

You are completely misrepresenting what I said. I never said they were praying to idols. I said they were praying to HIM. Unless of course they belong to a completely different religion where Jehovah is not the main focus.

We could use the example of placing our hands together or closing our eyes together when we pray. The clasping of the hands together or closing the eyes is completely irrelevant to anything. It's the intention of the prayer that matters.

I have never said that it's ok to worship or pray to idols. The bible is dead against that. Jehovah is dead against that. However, when say a Catholic bows down in front of a cross or an effigy of Jesus, they are not actually praying to that lump of wood. In their hearts they are praying to Jehovah. Their intent is that they are paying to Jehovah. Not the actual idol. Is that so difficult to grasp?

It all depends on the intent and purpose of what they are doing, which Jehovah would be well aware of. You may want to be pedantic about that, but Jehovah is not that pedantic. It would be a different thing if the person praying actually expected the piece of wood to do something for him, but that is not their intention.

I don't see what it so difficult to understand. Jehovah judges us by our hearts and our intents. Not whether we are bowing down in front of a piece of wood. Who is the person praying to? Not the wood. He's praying to Jehovah.

Likewise if a person prays to Jesus, they're not praying to an idol. They are praying to Jehovah. That is what they are intending.

And how has it happened that you skip over large portions of my comments and then ask the same questions that you had before I commented?

Exactly what have I skipped over that required a reply for? From my perspective you seem to be skipping over things I am saying. I am trying to point out that Jehovah looks at our intents and hearts. I have given you numerous verses that show this, but yet you seem to ignore them and continue to insist that it's idolatry.

I'm just glad that you are not Jehovah.

Why not read all of my comments?

I ask you the same question.

I had explained how praying to Jesus is NOT praying to Jehovah.

And I have explained to you that it IS! You cannot know the hearts of the people praying to Jesus. In their hearts they are praying to Jehovah. What is so hard to understand that Jehovah looks at our intentions?

You are just straight out wrong. People who pray to Jesus ARE praying to Jehovah. That is their full intention! It certainly was mine and I've explained that to you over and over. You don't seem to get that. Why not?

And your claim that every Christian you have talked to thinks of Jehovah as their God is beyond belief.

Why is that so? I've spoken to hundreds of Christians who all see Jehovah as their god. I am yet to come across one that doesn't and I have been in and out of churches, different denominations for 40 years. How many denominations have you been part of? How many years have you been part of them? How often do you even mix and mingle with people out side of the JWs?

Go right this minute and ask everyone you come in contact with who Jehovah is, and watch what their reaction is.
.

Is that seriously your response? LOL. Many don't know who Jehovah is, because Christians don't normally refer to the bible God as Jehovah. They call him God. However if you are to point out that Jehovah is actually the god of the bible, they will of course tell you they worship Jehovah. It is the same God!

I can't believe you'd even use that as an argument. Are you really serious?

Once again you completely ignore scripture that tells us that Jehovah looks at intents and purposes. Even if a Christian is unfamiliar with the name Jehovah they are still worshipping this Jehovah when they pray to the God of the bible. Jehovah is not that dim-witted or unreasonable that he needs you to refer to him as Jehovah.

[OnceConvinced]

Yes you did say that you feel that God would never use Jehovah's Witnesses to talk to you.

Please show me where I said that. I suspect you have taken it out of context or are deliberately misrepresenting me.

And don't other churches ALSO claim to be the true church? It's my impression that every other church does say that.

Clearly you haven't been to many churches outside of JW. That may explain why you believe that Christians in other churches don't pray to Jehovah.

The more extreme churches tend to shun others, but you'll find that most mainstream Christian churches are not that exclusive. I have never actually been part of an exclusive church. All Christians have been welcomed. They even do combined activities with other churches some times. They even advertise activities happening at other churches. No, the type of extremity you are looking for does not happen in the average church. It tend to happen only in cults.

Most churches these days don't even seem to brand themselves as a particular denomination, because they want to include all Christians. Even Jehovah's witnesses would be welcomed in the churches I've belonged to.

God is no petty being.

No he's not. He would not brand people who get a few doctrines wrong as false Christians. He would not ignore someone because they referred to him as Jesus or because they didn't know his real name was Jehovah.

He knows if you are praying to Him

Exactly! Whether you are bowing down in front of an idol or not... whether you are calling him Jesus or not, he knows EXACTLY who you are intending on praying to.

, and if you're praying to His Son---even after His Son told you to pray only to OUR FATHER---He knows you are not praying to HIM, Jehovah.

See there's the pedantic version of god you are illustrating. When a person prays to Jesus they are INTENDING on praying to Jehovah. Even if they are doing the wrong thing, they are still INTENDING on praying to Jehovah. Of course you can ignore intentions if you like. Jehovah does not. He examines our intentions, as I have pointed out to you with actual scripture - Jehovah's supposed word. Do you want me to post those scriptures again?

Why ignore those scriptures? Are you really that determine to brand other Christians as false Christians? As worshipers of false gods?

Christians outside of the JWs pray to Jesus all the time and Jesus answers their prayers and blesses them big time. (or so they claim). So clearly it matters not to Jehovah whether they refer to him as Jesus or not. They also don't even have to use the name Jehovah. Jehovah knows their intentions and he answers their prayers anyway and heaps blessings upon them anyway.

[OnceConvinced]

You were crying to Jehovah and not any other god; what convinced you that Jehovah is the God of heaven and earth? Of course if you are Jewish its understandable.

I was a Christian so I cried out to the god of the bible. I cried out to him because I had been a Christian all my life and that had been the god I'd always believed in.

After spending 40 years believing in one god, I have absolutely no desire to call out to any other. If there was another, then that god had plenty of opportunity to reply to my cries and say "Hey, OC, you're calling out to the wrong god." But nope. None did.

Well they are NOW.

OH, so you ARE Jehovah after all?

Yeeeah NAH, you're not a god. You're not Jehovah. You're a human being on the Internet. Why on earth would I believe that some stranger on the Internet is God telling me I worshipped the wrong god? Besides, I worshipped exactly the same god as you did! LOL.

Anyway, 'm not even crying out to any god now. That ship sailed a few years back.

If God wants to speak to me he is quite capable of doing it himself. He hardly needs someone on the Internet to speak for him.

Too little too late now anyway. I no longer believe in Jehovah, let alone Jesus. He's gonna have to do a darn sight more than speak through fallible humans.

Sheesh, if a god is calling out to me now it's not the JW version of god. There are way more Christians on this site than you and Jehovah's Witness. It could be that Ted represents true Christianity and it's his god that is calling me. Or maybe 1213, whose god expects us only to obey his commands and would not be worried about whether we got his name wrong. Or maybe Tam's god who speaks to us personally without the need for a middleman or a book. Or Peds Nurse's god. In fact Ped's nurse probably has the best version of God out of everyone here as that god sounds so lovely, except for maybe Myth-One.com's version of God who seems like a marvellous one. There are way more convincing gods calling me that the JW version.

[OnceConvinced]

2) Why wait until the late 1800s and the mid 1900s for the 'proper' denomination to be formed and the 'correct' translation of the Bible into English?

That's a fantastic question. Jehovah waits until 1800 years after Christ before he attempts to get his followers to follow correct doctrines? He waits 1800 years before he finally announces to all his followers that they are false Christians worshipping an idol?

That's crazy. It means that for 1800 years all these people who believed they were praying to Jehovah through Jesus are all doomed to Hell. Jehovah just let it happen.

This version of God being peddled here is certainly not a god who does things in a timely fashion is he? Waits 1800 years before he establishes the true Christian church. Waits until OnceConvinced is an atheist before he finally says "Hey dude, you were worshipping the wrong god." OnceConvinced spent 40 years following a false god and Jehovah never once let him know he was a false Christian up until now. In fact he allowed OnceConvinced to believe he was a true Christian in a relationship with him. Not even once did Jehovah make any effort to tell OneConvinced he wasn't a true Christian. Not once. Instead he says "Oh, I'll just wait until 2017 where I will send Onewithhim to put him straight. That should work."

Another epic fail on behalf of Jehovah.

[JehovahsWitness]

2) Why wait until the late 1800s and the mid 1900s for the 'proper' denomination to be formed and the 'correct' translation of the Bible into English?

It means that for 1800 years all these people who believed they were praying to Jehovah through Jesus are all doomed to Hell.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in Hell. We also believe that those that live and die in ignorance of God's purpose will be resurrected (bought back to life) on this our planet earth, so they will be given an opporutunity to learn about the True God and make an informed decision as to whether they wish to serve him or not.

Jesus prophecied that shortly after his death, there would be a corruption of teaching and an extended period during which there would be no organized and identifiable True Christian religion. This is often referred to as "the great Apostacy".


JW

[onewithhim]

So, the question remains, "why hasn't God answered my prayers?" (1) You were not praying to the God of the Bible (look at Psalm 83:18, KJV),

I was most definitely praying to the god of the bible. It was my intent to pray to him. It was in my heart to pray to him. If this god is real then he knows my heart and my intents as the scripture tells us he does.

Just some more clarification here for any JW that is interested. (or anyone else who is or was not a believer in the trinity). When I prayed I used various names to address God. But they were limited to these names, none other. I would use them quite regularly when I prayed: (In order of most commonly used)

Lord
Lord God
God
Father God
Lord Jesus

Notice only one of those names includes Jesus, which was used a lot less than the other four names.

Based on that, would you think God would reject my prayers simply because on the odd occasion I called him Lord Jesus, thinking that I was addressing him?

The reason I bring this up because it just seems so absurd to me that anyone would claim a believer in the trinity to be a false Christian simply because they believe Jesus is god. It just doesn't make any sense. A god who looks at our intents and hearts would know that we are addressing him, not some fallible human being or an idol or a pile of rocks.

But WERE you addressing Jehovah? You say that you used many TITLES, but never His name. Wouldn't a person who is talking to ANYONE use that one's personal name? I think you would. So why not God?

And I think it is really important that we appreciate just who God really is. If God is not a three-faced God but is just one Person, how can we figure that praying to a trinity of Gods is OK? The Bible indicates that He is one individual. Even Jesus said that the Father was an individual and He deserved all the glory and the worship, as God Almighty. Jesus NEVER claimed to be God, and there has been enough discussion on these threads to confirm that, if you have been following any of them.

.