Do you have the hope of going to heaven

[JehovahsWitness]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I do not have a hope of going to heaven (when I speak of "heaven" I mean the spiritual abode/realm where God lives).

- Do you personally entertain the hope of going to heaven to spend eternity with God when you die? (if this question is too personal I respect if you do not want to share this information)

- If so, do you believe such a literal spiritual realm exists?

- Do you believe that Jesus is presently in heaven where God exists?



* My question is for people that do believe that a God exists, since I presume that those that do not believe in God do believe he exists anywhere and therefore there is no "heaven" where God is.

[ttruscott]

IMHO, it is you who have not grasped what the Trinity is. In its very name, "trinity," it is revealed just how many Persons make up this version of "God." They are three different Persons, supposedly, who are altogether one God. If they all make up one God, then how can a trinitarian say the following?

The Father is God
The Son is God.
The H.S. is God.

Add them up. There are THREE Gods. Trinitarians are worshiping a polytheistic god.

Nope, that is not the case at all. You seem to be making up your own version of the Trinity. No Trinitarian sees it that way. Those who understand the trinity understand that it is one God with three different parts. Each part performs a different task.

Yes, some are very stubborn in rejecting the Trinitarian thesis that the Unity of divine attributes forms a Single GOD in perfect harmony. To insist on their definition is fine - to insist it is the only definition as if we are really in agreement with them but too ignorant to be able to count is bogus.

I want to clean up your language a bit: one God with three different parts. Each part performs a different task....I think most Trinitarians (though I admit, not all) would accept: one GOD of three Persons each Person with a special focus but they share tasks sometimes. as a bit sharper in detail, no?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 191 by ttruscott]

Do you have a scripture for the "three parts of God" theory? The reason I ask is because I can't help but think of Deutronomy 6:4 that says Jehovah (the Father) is ONE God and not one third of ONE.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 189 by 2timothy316]




[center]Believing in things that you don't understand.. superstition is the way.[/center]

I think the saying goes, "If you try to explain the Trinity, you will lose your mind. But if you deny it, you will lose your soul."

In other words:

"The Trinity? Oh that.. nobody understands why it's so darn important to us Christians."


Us secular guys like to at least UNDERSTAND what we say we believe.

[ttruscott]

I prayed to him regularly throughout the day. What kind of a callous god would ignore someone that genuine?"

From my pov there are two scenarios in answer to this depending upon who is experiencing it.

1. For an elect, the dark night of the soul despair, seeking but never finding, is a part of their perfect life experience designed to bring them to holiness by making them look inside for the reason why God is ignoring them to get past blaming HIM. In this case obsessive would equal genuine.

2. For a non-elect it is the natural consequence of having fully rejected HIM, learning the truth of hell waiting and trying to repair the irreparable damage to their relationship with HIM to avoid it. HE asked for our faith, our unproven hope HE was telling us the truth that HE was our GOD and saviour as the entrance into HIS family and church. Those who rejected faith in favour of proof then can never fulfill accepting HIM on faith once they have seen the proof. Though the proof will instill a great desire to choose HIM, it is out of fear, not faith nor desire to receive what HE had to offer that impels their 'conversion'. To scorn HIS offer by faith in the idea that HE was a false god and a liar was to scorn HIM at the deepest level of their personal commitment because they chose to reject HIM as GOD and Saviour knowing that if they did so they would end in hell. No one made a casual mistake - we made an eternal commitment to the kind of life we hoped for...and we will get what we chose. In this case obsessive does not equal genuine.

Even Jesus prayed for The Cup to be taken away from Him but the Father did not do it.

Those Christians who believe that He came to die on the cross do not accept His words to express a desire not to die on the cross (the cup) but take the context of the suffering He was going thru when He spoke to suggest He thought He might die before the cross right there in the garden as the cup, and though that was not His desire, He would accept it if the Father wanted.

To not give God the right to do according to His Will lacks any concept of the idea od 'God'. I would think this to be priority of any religion including Christianity.

Yup...

[ttruscott]

In either case, Trinitarians would say that the above is a gross mischaractirization of their beliefs. They would say the Father, Son, and H.S. are three facets of the one singular God.

Thank you rikuoamero for this defence of our ability to count, but your definition of GOD in three aspects is called Modalism or Sabellianism and though accepted by many it is rejected by Unity Trinitarians as anti-Christian, <shrug>.

Unity Trinitarians accept that the unity created by the divine attributes which makes all divine Persons GODLY is such that it is acceptable to refer to YHWH, the Unity, by a singular pronoun, HIM, HIS etc. when referring to the Three Divine Persons in their Unity, ie, YHWH.

There are three persons. They are divine. Their divine-ness, their divine qualities, creates a unity of Divineness called ONE. There are three divine Persons in ONE GOD.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 195 by ttruscott]

but your definition of GOD in three aspects is called Modalism or Sabellianism and though accepted by many it is rejected by Unity Trinitarians as anti-Christian, <shrug>.

Ah yes, Christians saying of other Christians that they are not Christians. Never saw that before...

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 194 by ttruscott]

I prayed to him regularly throughout the day. What kind of a callous god would ignore someone that genuine?"

From my pov there are two scenarios in answer to this depending upon who is experiencing it.

1. For an elect,....

This is reserved for the elected, folks.
Sorry, no vacancies.

It's all booked up.
Next time, make a reservation.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 191 by ttruscott]

Do you have a scripture for the "three parts of God" theory? The reason I ask is because I can't help but think of Deutronomy 6:4 that says Jehovah (the Father) is ONE God and not one third of ONE.

Your understanding is confusing YHWH as the Father of the NT because HE is referred to as our Father in the OT when our Creator is meant, rather than the Unity of the GODhead as in Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. is: Hear, O Israel: Yah-weh "" our God (" , Elohim), Yah-weh "" is one e-, " contains the idea that YHWH is ONE, a UNITY (of Persons), so not precisely one if it is taken to mean only one Person.

e-, or echad in English, is defined in Gen 2:24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is UNITED to his wife, and they become one/echad/" flesh. Do the two people melt together becoming one body or are they unified by a true marriage?

The attributes of apple tree dna unify all apple trees into one species. You can know what you have, an apple tree or a fox by its dna attributes.
The attributes of divinity make all people with those attributes divine.
One of the attributes of divinity is divinity forms a UNITY best called ONE without losing the personal individuality of each divine person. They are not gone nor submerged but UNIFIED, just like the unity of a man and his wife typify.

Can this be interpreted in other ways? Of course, but this is my faith, my unproven hope, while your mileage may differ.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 191 by ttruscott]

Do you have a scripture for the "three parts of God" theory? The reason I ask is because I can't help but think of Deutronomy 6:4 that says Jehovah (the Father) is ONE God and not one third of ONE.

Your understanding is confusing YHWH as the Father of the NT because HE is referred to as our Father in the OT when our Creator is meant ...

Excuse me?!

Are you suggesting that the God of Abraham that uttered those words is NOT the same Father Jesus called on?

I understand you are suggesting that the "one" is unity but YHWH can only be one third of that unity without his other 2/3rds. If he had said Jesus and the Holy spirit and I are "one" I could understand, but speaking of Himself (YHWH) he cannot be one he can only be one-third. In short:

"Listen O Israel, YHWH your God, the Lord is ... one-third".

JW

[William]

[Replying to post 191 by ttruscott]

Do you have a scripture for the "three parts of God" theory? The reason I ask is because I can't help but think of Deutronomy 6:4 that says Jehovah (the Father) is ONE God and not one third of ONE.

Q: Why do you think a GOD can only be one thing and not many things as ONE?