Do you have the hope of going to heaven

[JehovahsWitness]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I do not have a hope of going to heaven (when I speak of "heaven" I mean the spiritual abode/realm where God lives).

- Do you personally entertain the hope of going to heaven to spend eternity with God when you die? (if this question is too personal I respect if you do not want to share this information)

- If so, do you believe such a literal spiritual realm exists?

- Do you believe that Jesus is presently in heaven where God exists?



* My question is for people that do believe that a God exists, since I presume that those that do not believe in God do believe he exists anywhere and therefore there is no "heaven" where God is.

[onewithhim]

(As an illustration to answer your question though... Pharaoh in Egypt placed Joseph in charge of all His belongings. Joseph was second only to Pharaoh. If one wanted something from Pharaoh, then one needed to go to Joseph. Joseph was to be honored as one honored Pharaoh. If one was dishonoring Joseph, one would be dishonoring Pharaoh.

As a more modern example perhaps, an oil tycoon decides it is time for his son to take over, inherit. So he puts his son in charge of everything. You think he does not expect all of this employees, partners, etc, to treat the son he has placed in charge with the same respect and honor as they treated him? If one of them tries to come to him, would he not send them to his son, whom he has placed in charge?)

We should not be taking the father/son aspect too literally. If you are to say that Jesus is a literal son of God then that must mean he had a mother. This would mean that there was some female God there who mothered Jesus, as he existed before he came to earth as a human.

I disagree. Things are a bit different in the spirit realm than they are in the physical one. To create the person who became Jesus Christ, God would not need anybody else. Indeed, He never indicated anywhere in the Bible that He needed a "female" Spirit to help Him create.

We can take the father/son aspect literally. Jehovah fathered Jesus---He brought Jesus into existence. (Colossians 1:15)

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 238 by OnceConvinced]

YOU said that those certain verses "screamed trinity" to you, even though there were only two. So saying that "two" is a TRINITY is as unreasonable as someone saying the trinity means "1 X 1 X 1." Your arguments don't add up. Pun intended.

But far be it from me to suggest to anyone that they don't have the right to believe whatever they choose to believe.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 239 by William]

God can, in a sense, be many things. He is still the one Person---God. He is not some other Person.

Jesus differentiated himself from God, his Father. He said that the Father was "the ONLY true God." (John 17:3) Really, how much clearer can it be that "God" and "Jesus" are two different Persons? (And they are "one" in that they are in agreement; unified, just like the disciples were also "one" with them. [John 17:20-23])

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 240 by onewithhim]


[center]

Compassion for Rev. Jim Jones[/center]

Well, I guess I might just have seen it all......a person who equates Jesus Christ with Donald Trump!

Ha ha.
Good one, onewithhim !


Jesus really might have been an evil cult leader.
We don't rightly know.

But there you go. I just compared Jesus to Jim Jones !

The thing about compassion is that I only have it for people, not for their beliefs.

[William]

[Replying to post 243 by onewithhim]

So what you are saying is that you believe that GOD is a person with a body? Like this representational image?

[youtube][/youtube]

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 243 by onewithhim]

So what you are saying is that you believe that GOD is a person with a body? Like this representational image?

The video you refer to doesn't depict Jehovah at all; the one seated on the throne is JESUS not Jehovah.

That said, whether it be Jesus or Jehovah Jehovah's Witnesses believe both are spirits. We do believe God has a body, a spirit body. Pauls said, If there are physical bodies there are spiritual bodies. Spirits have spiritual bodies. We don't know what a spirit body looks like or what form it takes (no one has ever seen one).



SOURCE: https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... o-prayers/

When our videos depict Jehovah, which is extremely rare, we do what the scriptures do, which effectively present Jehovah in human terms so that we can relate to him (the bible speaks of Jehovah having "eyes", "hands" "arms" "feet" etc) of course these are just metaphors, God doesn't have a physical body at all, but they help us understand his nature and capacities. Scholars call such terms anthropomorphic (see further reading below)

Hope that helps,

JW


Further reading
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102008370

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 243 by onewithhim]

So what you are saying is that you believe that GOD is a person with a body? Like this representational image?

[youtube][/youtube]

That is safe to say. Jehovah is a Person that is made up of spirit. (John 4:24) I think people are wrong when they think that a spirit body is not real just because it is not physical.

[William]

[Replying to post 247 by onewithhim]

So Jehovah is made up of spirit. "God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.� How does someone worship 'in spirit' when they are without this 'spirit body'?

What is the HS made up of, do you think?

Does 'The Father' have form? Apparently so by your comment about spirits bodies being 'real'.

So how does someone who is pretty much a humanoid, manage to create this incredibly huge universe? I smell fish.

[Replying to post 246 by JehovahsWitness]

Spirits have spiritual bodies? That sounds weird. It is like saying 'fleshies have fleshly bodies.'
No one has ever seen a 'spirit body'? What is a 'spirit?' Why would a spirit need a body? Why would a spirit need a throne to sit its spirit body upon?

Jehovah is depicted in human terms so that you can relate to him? If Jehovah was depicted as an alien, would you no longer be inclined to relate to him?
If the depictions are just 'metaphors', is this to say that Jehovah really has no formal form?
What makes you think that when Jesus referred to GOD as his 'father' that he wasn't being metaphorical?

I understand the temptation to anthropomorphize GOD by making an image of It and giving It a sex (in this case human-male) but is the need a righteous one or really even necessary? Ancient people learning the ropes, sure, but in today's day and age?


How does it help anyone's case in arguing for a creator of this universe, when the supposed creator is visualized to being held within the context of a humanized form, or for that matter, that GOD cannot be all things at all times and places and not limited to a particular 'body' which is labelled 'GOD' and worshiped as a thing?

And isn't that precisely why the image of Jesus is placed upon a throne as a physical representation of a humanoid (and noticeably Caucasian) object of superiority and worship and that the artist gets inspiration for the imagery from a book, does not in itself take away the apparent idolatry of the whole concept that the imagery is conveying.

Metaphor in imagery is a well documented form of propaganda used for the purpose of indoctrination of the mass of minds they are designed to ensnare.

One likes their idea of 'god' to being - white, male, sitting in a throne being idolized, and having favorites, of which of course, one is.

Romanticism.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 247 by onewithhim]

So Jehovah is made up of spirit. "God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.� How does someone worship 'in spirit' when they are without this 'spirit body'?

"God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." (John 4:24, NASB)

We worship "in spirit" the same way we worship "in truth." "Spirit" doesn't always mean "Holy Spirit," or a spirit person. God is a spirit Person, yes, but His human creation doesn't have to be spirit people to worship Him correctly. We worship "in spirit" by way of our own impelling mental inclinations. That is, the force, if you will, that causes a person to show a certain attitude or disposition, that takes him into a certain course of action. We say, "He's down in the dumps; his spirits are low," or, "she's got a brave spirit, skiing down that 75 degree angle on the mountain." That is what Jesus was saying: we must have it in us to take God's things seriously and honor what He asks of us, not relying so much on what we can see.

[onewithhim]

Does 'The Father' have form? Apparently so by your comment about spirits bodies being 'real'.

So how does someone who is pretty much a humanoid, manage to create this incredibly huge universe? I smell fish.

[Replying to post 246 by JehovahsWitness]

Spirits have spiritual bodies? That sounds weird. It is like saying 'fleshies have fleshly bodies.'
No one has ever seen a 'spirit body'? What is a 'spirit?' Why would a spirit need a body? Why would a spirit need a throne to sit its spirit body upon?

Jehovah is depicted in human terms so that you can relate to him? If Jehovah was depicted as an alien, would you no longer be inclined to relate to him?
If the depictions are just 'metaphors', is this to say that Jehovah really has no formal form?
What makes you think that when Jesus referred to GOD as his 'father' that he wasn't being metaphorical?

I understand the temptation to anthropomorphize GOD by making an image of It and giving It a sex (in this case human-male) but is the need a righteous one or really even necessary? Ancient people learning the ropes, sure, but in today's day and age?


How does it help anyone's case in arguing for a creator of this universe, when the supposed creator is visualized to being held within the context of a humanized form, or for that matter, that GOD cannot be all things at all times and places and not limited to a particular 'body' which is labelled 'GOD' and worshiped as a thing?

And isn't that precisely why the image of Jesus is placed upon a throne as a physical representation of a humanoid (and noticeably Caucasian) object of superiority and worship and that the artist gets inspiration for the imagery from a book, does not in itself take away the apparent idolatry of the whole concept that the imagery is conveying.

Metaphor in imagery is a well documented form of propaganda used for the purpose of indoctrination of the mass of minds they are designed to ensnare.

One likes their idea of 'god' to being - white, male, sitting in a throne being idolized, and having favorites, of which of course, one is.

Romanticism.

Nobody can say what a spirit body consists of. The ingredients aren't provided anywhere.

God is NOT a "humanoid," and that's how he can create this vast universe. He is totally unlike humans except for his fine attributes that he has given to humans---love, wisdom, power and justice. We can identify with him because he has feelings like we do.

I do not view God or Jesus as a white male with flowing blond hair and blue eyes. That is a crock. You are right to suggest that God must be far above and beyond those anthropomorphisms that we bestow on him. He is something we cannot understand, but at the same time he wants to relate to us. That shows that he loves us and cares about our happiness.