Jehovah's Witnesses...

[Elijah John]

This question is specifically for Jehovah's Witnesses, but anyone is welcome to chime in.

As an organization who understands and appreciates the name of God, Father Jehovah, why regard Paul at all? Someone who places Jesus name above all, even above the name of Father Jehovah?

The Watchtower Society proclaims the name of the LORD Jehovah, Paul? Never. Unless I am missing something.

He seems to equate "the Lord" with "Christ", not YHVH.

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name

Phillippians 2.9

For debate...has Paul put Jesus name above every other name including YHVH's?

If it was God and not Paul who did this, where does YHVH say He would ever do this, putting the Messiah's name above His own?

If not, why doesn't Paul proclaim YHVH's name, only Jesus?

If Paul has put Jesus name above all, why should anyone who loves YHVH consider Paul's writings "Sacred Scripture"?

[Elijah John]

And a reminder to JWs.

Even given the possiblity of redaction by translators, and that Paul may have occasionally used the name of YHVH God in his writings...

Remember that Paul never preached salvation in YHVH's name, nor did he ever preach that YHVH's name is above every other.

Instead Paul preached salvation in Jesus name, and that Jesus's name is above every other.

How is that not placing the Son above the Father?

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 31 by Elijah John]

That is correct about Paul. The NWT inserts "Jehovah God" around 239 times in the NT, where it was never used in the originals. A most corrupt translation, indeed.

[JehovahsWitness]

And a reminder to JWs.

Even given the possiblity of redaction by translators, and that Paul may have occasionally used the name of YHVH God in his writings...

Remember that Paul never preached salvation in YHVH's name, nor did he ever preach that YHVH's name is above every other.

Instead Paul preached salvation in Jesus name, and that Jesus's name is above every other.

How is that not placing the Son above the Father?

And a reminder to you that is your opinion and Jehovah's Witnesses are not beholden to hold to YOUR INTERPRETATION of any scripture in the bible or your summary of any bible books.

I disagree with all the conclusions you have drawn above.:

I do not agree that Paul never never preached salvation in YHVH's name

I do no not agree that he never preach that YHVH's name is above every other.

I do not agree that instead Paul preached salvation in Jesus name, and that Jesus's name is above JEHOVAH

Obviously I not will be arguing for or against anything based on what I see as false premise , so I will leave this for those that agree with your conclusions.

Enjoy


JW

ROMANS 10:13
" “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.� - NWT

[onewithhim]

And a reminder to JWs.

Even given the possiblity of redaction by translators, and that Paul may have occasionally used the name of YHVH God in his writings...

Remember that Paul never preached salvation in YHVH's name, nor did he ever preach that YHVH's name is above every other.

Instead Paul preached salvation in Jesus name, and that Jesus's name is above every other.

How is that not placing the Son above the Father?

If there IS a possibility that Paul used Jehovah's name in his writings (as I have given information in favor of), then why bring such heavy accusations against him? It is not impossible that when he said that God GAVE Christ a name above every name that he meant, of course, except the Father's name! I have said that since Paul honored the Father, Jehovah, as God, he didn't consider it a problem to assume that other Christians would also. Wouldn't he think that it's A GIVEN that Jehovah's name would be at the very top? For Jehovah to give Christ a name above every name, how could that even be possible for Him to raise His Son higher than Himself? He would always have the ability to bring the Son back down.

We don't have to even bother ourselves with the imagined idolatry that Paul MAY HAVE committed. It may not have been his intention, just as it was not the Apostle John's intention to say that the Word was God Almighty. People can take things to the extreme, with no valid reason for doing so, just because they can't relate to the time and culture involved.

I see that Paul merely meant that Jehovah gave Christ a name that is above every other name, besides the Father's name. And Paul preached salvation in Jesus' name to emphasize the point that Jehovah saves mankind THROUGH Jesus.

[Sword007]

[Replying to Elijah John]

Hi Elijah, thanks for the welcome. We don't know what Paul called God. It does not say in the Scriptures, so we really can't speculate. However, nothing is said that he did not honor and respect the One True God. He was indeed obedient when God sent him to be the apostle to the Gentiles. He was to preach Christ and Him crucified.

[Elijah John]

And a reminder to JWs.

Even given the possiblity of redaction by translators, and that Paul may have occasionally used the name of YHVH God in his writings...

Remember that Paul never preached salvation in YHVH's name, nor did he ever preach that YHVH's name is above every other.

Instead Paul preached salvation in Jesus name, and that Jesus's name is above every other.

How is that not placing the Son above the Father?

And a reminder to you that is your opinion and Jehovah's Witnesses are not beholden to hold to YOUR INTERPRETATION of any scripture in the bible or your summary of any bible books.

I disagree with all the conclusions you have drawn above.:

I do not agree that Paul never never preached salvation in YHVH's name

I do no not agree that he never preach that YHVH's name is above every other.

I do not agree that instead Paul preached salvation in Jesus name, and that Jesus's name is above JEHOVAH

Obviously I not will be arguing for or against anything based on what I see as false premise , so I will leave this for those that agree with your conclusions.

Enjoy


JW

ROMANS 10:13
" “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.� - NWT

Of course you are not beholden to my interpretation. But no organization is a above criticism here on these boards.

You don't agree with my premise on several matters, but you have not demonstrated them to be false.

WHERE, for instance, did Paul preach salvation in YHVH's name? I can only recall him preaching salvation in Jesus name.

You and I both agree that Jesus is NOT Jehovah.

And again, for Paul "Christ" is his everything, he never says "for me to live is YHVH."

"Christ" is not YHVH God, yet Paul makes effectively makes a god out of him, and puts Christ in God's place.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to Elijah John]

Hi Elijah, thanks for the welcome. We don't know what Paul called God. It does not say in the Scriptures, so we really can't speculate. However, nothing is said that he did not honor and respect the One True God. He was indeed obedient when God sent him to be the apostle to the Gentiles. He was to preach Christ and Him crucified.

I do believe Paul intended to honor the one true God, but he did not honor him by name. His name is YHVH, (Yahweh, Jehovah) not Jesus.

And you are right, Paul preached "Christ and him crucified" or as Thomas Paine puts it: "instead of God, a man is preached."

[Elijah John]

And a reminder to JWs.

Even given the possiblity of redaction by translators, and that Paul may have occasionally used the name of YHVH God in his writings...

Remember that Paul never preached salvation in YHVH's name, nor did he ever preach that YHVH's name is above every other.

Instead Paul preached salvation in Jesus name, and that Jesus's name is above every other.

How is that not placing the Son above the Father?

If there IS a possibility that Paul used Jehovah's name in his writings (as I have given information in favor of), then why bring such heavy accusations against him? It is not impossible that when he said that God GAVE Christ a name above every name that he meant, of course, except the Father's name! I have said that since Paul honored the Father, Jehovah, as God, he didn't consider it a problem to assume that other Christians would also. Wouldn't he think that it's A GIVEN that Jehovah's name would be at the very top? For Jehovah to give Christ a name above every name, how could that even be possible for Him to raise His Son higher than Himself? He would always have the ability to bring the Son back down.

I understand your argument and see it's merits. Yes, Paul may have considered YHVH's name above Jesus a given, but he effectively puts Jesus name above Jehovahs, by preaching Christ instead. For example, where does Paul ever say that there is salvation in YHVH's name?

Did you know, for instance, that salvation can be found in Jehovah's name? (It's in the Psalms) Or that He forgives for his own sake? If not, then Paul has done his work well, and achieved perhaps what he set out to do.

I see that Paul merely meant that Jehovah gave Christ a name that is above every other name, besides the Father's name. And Paul preached salvation in Jesus' name to emphasize the point that Jehovah saves mankind THROUGH Jesus.

That notion is refuted by YHVH through Isaiah (42.8) :

I am YHVH, that is my name and my glory I will not give to another,

[onewithhim]

And a reminder to JWs.

Even given the possiblity of redaction by translators, and that Paul may have occasionally used the name of YHVH God in his writings...

Remember that Paul never preached salvation in YHVH's name, nor did he ever preach that YHVH's name is above every other.

Instead Paul preached salvation in Jesus name, and that Jesus's name is above every other.

How is that not placing the Son above the Father?

If there IS a possibility that Paul used Jehovah's name in his writings (as I have given information in favor of), then why bring such heavy accusations against him? It is not impossible that when he said that God GAVE Christ a name above every name that he meant, of course, except the Father's name! I have said that since Paul honored the Father, Jehovah, as God, he didn't consider it a problem to assume that other Christians would also. Wouldn't he think that it's A GIVEN that Jehovah's name would be at the very top? For Jehovah to give Christ a name above every name, how could that even be possible for Him to raise His Son higher than Himself? He would always have the ability to bring the Son back down.

I understand your argument and see it's merits. Yes, Paul may have considered YHVH's name above Jesus a given, but he effectively puts Jesus name above Jehovahs, by preaching Christ instead. For example, where does Paul ever say that there is salvation in YHVH's name?

I believe it has been posted by myself in past posts and by JW on a recent post:

"'Everyone who calls on the name of JEHOVAH will be saved.'" (Romans 10:13) Paul was quoting from Joel 2:32, as Peter did at Acts 2:21.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 38 by Elijah John]

It's a given that Jehovah's glory as God Almighty could never be shared with another. No one else is equal to Him.