Does God change his mind?

[OnceConvinced]

A Christian member of our forum recently pointed out a bible contradiction for all to see:

This verse was presented first:
Numbers 23:19 "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind."

The Christian then attempted to trump it with a contradictory scripture where God DOES change his mind, thus exposing a blatant bible contradiction:

Jeremiah 18:8 "But if that nation about which I spoke turns from its evil way, I'll change my mind about the disaster that I had planned for it."

Here are further verses that show God changing his mind:

Exodus 32:14
So the LORD changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.

Amos 7:3
The LORD changed His mind about this. "It shall not be," said the LORD.

Jeremiah 18:10
if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it. (wow this is a verse where God says he will break his promise!!)


So questions for debate:

Does Got change his mind?
If he does change his mind, how do we know he hasn't changed his mind about much of what he expected from us in the New Testament?
If he does change his mind, how can we really know what he wants of us today?

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 438 by Danmark]

I'm curious. Do you have problems with the notion that God changes? I mean, the fact that God changes does not mean God is not eternal. It all depends on what aspects of God you are talking about.

I agree that the immutability of God is distinct from the issue of 'his' eternal nature. However, to admit God changes is to admit God is not omniscient. If 'god' changes or grows or develops than 'god' is a mere being, not the very ground of being. To say god changes is to confess 'he' is humanlike similar to a Roman, Greek, or Norse god replete with human qualities.

[marco]

I agree that the immutability of God is distinct from the issue of 'his' eternal nature. However, to admit God changes is to admit God is not omniscient. If 'god' changes or grows or develops than 'god' is a mere being, not the very ground of being. To say god changes is to confess 'he' is humanlike similar to a Roman, Greek, or Norse god replete with human qualities.

The simplest way of finding out is to ask him. We can then discuss whether his silence means he's away or he's decided not to talk. This seems eminently more logical than ascribing him qualities and then discussing whether our identikit picture fits the unknown and unseen.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 435 by hoghead1]



[center]The value of a purely fictional Bible[/center]

I didn't say you couldn't learn anything from Greek myths. Obviously, you can. Myths are important. They aren't just pure fabrications. They always have a factual basis.

The same can be said of any fiction.
Even the Bible.

In fact, I think fiction may be a greater doorway to the truth than just citing mere facts, reading dull, boring reports.

Mark the day....
We agree again.

But just because a book is more ENTERTAINING, it doesn't imply TRUE in any way.

Nobody seemed to care a hoot about conditions in meat-packing plants, despite all sorts of published reports, until Sinclair Lewis published "The Jungle."

Perhaps the people who wrote all sorts of reports had a care.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 442 by marco]

The simplest way of finding out is to ask him.

I don't think that trying to do something impossible is all that "simple".

[marco]

I don't think that trying to do something impossible is all that "simple".

You are confusing the request (easy to do) with its successful conclusion, Blastcat. You are also forgetting Matthew 7:7

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you."

It's useful to remember: when in Rome, do what the Romans do. Hope all this helps.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 445 by marco]



[center]
Some people do 10 impossible things before breakfast.[/center]

I don't think that trying to do something impossible is all that "simple".

You are confusing the request (easy to do) with its successful conclusion, Blastcat. You are also forgetting Matthew 7:7

For sure I am.

When someone throws the "Book" at me, I just look it up, OR, if they are kind enough , read the quote.

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you."

It's useful to remember: when in Rome, do what the Romans do.

Thanks for the quote.
I can't do the impossible in Rome, either.

Hope all this helps.

Well, it KINDA helps me to figure out your brand of reasoning... which I usually can't fathom at all. I think "deflection" is what you commonly use when being challenged.

When in Rome?
Really?

What does THAT mean?

I still cannot be EXPECTED to do the impossible. How can doing the IMPOSSIBLE to do be SIMPLE?.. doesn't make any sense, yo.


IF I can do something IT WAS POSSIBLE.


So, if you wanted to explain to me your REASONING, no, it didn't really help at all. I still can't follow it.

What do you mean, do the impossible?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 439 by hoghead1]



[center]

What omniscience means is QUASI omniscience, of course. Religious people don't say what they REALLY mean, what's the fun in that?[/center]

Omniscience requires some qualification.

The word means "knowing everything" ... now what are you saying God DOESN'T know?

[marco]

Some people do 10 impossible things before breakfast.

Hello Blastcat. You seem to have invented something about things being impossible and then you're building on your invention. Let's return to what I actually wrote:

"The simplest way of finding out is to ask him. We can then discuss whether his silence means he's away or he's decided not to talk."

If we want to discover whether God is this or that, we can ask. No, this is not impossible and why? We are in a forum that accepts the existence of God. Thus, praying or casting our eyes to the sky and voicing our question is NOT impossible. You can even try it.

THEN I said, we might have to interpret the SILENCE. And the authority for doing all this?

Why, Scripture of course, which we may happily consult here. Ask and ye shall receive.

You ask what the Rome reference means: "When in Rome do as the Romans do."

Well we are not in the Eternal City, of course, but we are in metaphor and here Rome stands for the forum that admits belief in a deity and would be comfortable with prayer. Thus, do what the Romans do is an invitation to voice your question. I am not claiming that you will certainly receive an answer, as the quote suggests, but this might be because God is busy. Again, that was covered in my original post.

You helpfully tell me:

"I can't do the impossible in Rome, either."

I know, neither can I, and I was in Rome a few weeks back. But you see we are in metaphor, not Rome. And even in metaphor, nobody is asking you to do the impossible -just ask a question. That isn't impossible at all.

You conclude your series of questions with:


"What do you mean, do the impossible?"

I never mentioned impossible in my post. I said it would be easy to ask, to voice a question. You picked up on " impossible " but that's got nothing to do with me. If it helps, "impossible" comes from the Latin verb "posse" meaning "to be able to" and an impossible task would be one that cannot be done. Saying a prayer isn't covered by the word impossible, for I have witnessed people praying.

So, to return to the OP, if we want to know if God changes his mind, we could form a prayer into a question that seeks an answer. For example;
"Dear God, do you change your mind?"

And that was all poor Marco intended by his earlier remark. Have a good day.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 448 by marco]


[center]

Apparently, it's NOT impossible to give God a call.[/center]

"The simplest way of finding out is to ask him. We can then discuss whether his silence means he's away or he's decided not to talk."

Ask WHOM?
God?

You have to be kidding.. that's impossible.
Otherwise, I'd a done done it a long long time a go-go, amigo.

And that was all poor Marco intended by his earlier remark. Have a good day.

Does poor Marco have his cell phone number, so I can ask him?

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 440 by marco]

Yes, but you see, you haven't explained to me why errors in a "divinely inspired work" mean it should be dumped. Common sense would tell you that if you are going to dump something because it is not infallible or requires judgment calls on your part to determine the truth, then you are going to have to dump all of history.

The fact that there are "errors" in Scripture has nothing to do, really, with whether it is divinely inspired or not. Many fundamentalists hold with a dictation theory of inspiration, whereby God had to dictate the Bible word for word to purely passive scribes, who write it down exactly as God so said. But who says this theory if inspiration is correct or the only one? I don't view God as a cosmic dictator, who micromanages our lives and actions. I believe we all have genuine freedom. Hence, God cannot decide all our decisions for us. The fact God lures or inspire us does not guarantee the results will be perfect. I seem to recall that when Jerome was working with his biblical translators, he complained more than once that they should stick to the text, do a better job of it. A symphony conductor inspires the orchestra, but cannot guarantee they will always follow his or her lead, and often they don't. Same with God and ourselves.

In fact, I'm glad there are errors in Scripture. Those remind us only God is perfect. They keep us from bibliolatry, putting the book in place of God.

Plus, I view God as working like a carpenter, working with the grain, not over and against it. God can only move us as far as we allow and are ready. Expecting God to have imparted all sorts of advanced scientific knowledge to the biblical writers is as ridiculous as assuming God should shave given Columbus the pans and keys to a nuclear sub and said simply, "Go at it, Chris."