Do you have the hope of going to heaven

[JehovahsWitness]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I do not have a hope of going to heaven (when I speak of "heaven" I mean the spiritual abode/realm where God lives).

- Do you personally entertain the hope of going to heaven to spend eternity with God when you die? (if this question is too personal I respect if you do not want to share this information)

- If so, do you believe such a literal spiritual realm exists?

- Do you believe that Jesus is presently in heaven where God exists?



* My question is for people that do believe that a God exists, since I presume that those that do not believe in God do believe he exists anywhere and therefore there is no "heaven" where God is.

[OnceConvinced]

Nobody claims to communicate with Santa through prayer. Unless they are delusional with mental problems.

People who claim they communicate with a god through prayer are often seen as delusional too.

Santa is meant to be a physical being, not a spirit like God.

Says who? We know that St Nick was a normal human being. Well actually we don't know that for certain, but we presume he was. However there must have been some kind of transformation. After he died (which he surely must of), he went from a human to a spiritual being who was able to perform magic tricks.

If it can work for Jesus, why not Santa?

God lives in heaven which is not of this world, Santa lives at the North Pole.

Ah, but have you ever been to the North Pole to confirm this? As far as I am aware nobody has ever been able to locate Santa's workshop or for that matter any elves. So perhaps it must be a spiritual realm? One that cannot be visited by normal humans? Perhaps the elves too are simply like angelic beings or something similar.

We must surely consider the fact that Santa lives in a spiritual realm, just like Jesus supposedly does? If it can work for Jesus, why not Santa?

The premises are not the same.

They seem very similar to me. If we can make claims for one, we can make the same claims for another.

But God is not a "guy". He does not possess a human body

Well clearly Santa can't possibly be an ordinary guy with a human body either, other wise how would he get down modern chimneys? How could he possibly survive the centrifugal forces that the sleigh would have to travel to reach the speeds it needs to get to, to be able to reach its required destinations on time? It seems that Santa would have to be some kind of spiritual being, which would explain why he has never been captured or seen. It is why you cannot go to the North Pole and visit him.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 281 by OnceConvinced]



"People who claim they communicate with a god through prayer are often seen as delusional too. "

It is not their problem.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 282 by Monta]



[center]Some people will actually DEFEND having delusions[/center]

"People who claim they communicate with a god through prayer are often seen as delusional too. "

It is not their problem.

If someone IS delusional, let me tell ya sumthin':
It's a problem.

It's a problem for themselves, and it's a problem for the society they live in.

[Joe1950]

Talking about Santa Claus. That is something I can relate to.

As an adult I insisted that Santa Claus did exist. Both my kids asked me and I told them. YES. Santa does exist. And daddy is not a liar.

Santa does some amazing things. Incredibly kind and thoughtful.Flies through the air without the use of fossil fuels. Is able to enter locked buildings via chimneys. And he gives people gifts. What is not to believe?

Last Xmas I received a number of gifts marked "From Santa", so I know for a fact that he exists. I have solid evidence in the form of his signature on the gift. I have no such evidence for the existence of Yahweh, Allah, Jesus, etc.

So, Santa exists. No one can prove me wrong. I believe. Perhaps some of you no longer gets gifts from Santa because you have lost your faith? REPENT !

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 278 by Claire Evans]



[center]
God is a character in a fairy tale for kids.[/center]

The kid's version of Santa Claus doesn't exist.

We atheists might say the same of "God".

He might have started off as a scary monster in a story for kids, too. Around a campfire, a long long time ago. Clever story teller, enthralled and maybe even terrified kids, I bet.

I am a pretty good campfire story teller myself.
You should just SEE the eyes of the little kids....

BIG and wide... But even if the stories were a little TOO scary ( they asked me that I tell them scary stories ) They came BACK for more. Inevitably.

Tell us the one about the scary monster who drowns the whole planet, and then has his son die on a cross, Blastcat !!!

[Claire Evans]

Nobody claims to communicate with Santa through prayer. Unless they are delusional with mental problems.

People who claim they communicate with a god through prayer are often seen as delusional too.

They can be considered delusional but it is not a far out concept to be able to communicate with the spiritual world through prayer. People meditate.

Meditation is a method to remove yourself from the three-dimensional world and initiate communication with the high realms of Heaven of in the Spirit World. The purpose of meditation is to discover our true selves – a spiritual being residing in a physical body; and experience true happiness by feeling free from the restrictions of this physical world."

Many who meditate claim to have spirit guides and it could lead to demonic possession.

http://www.allaboutspirituality.org/dan ... on-faq.htm

Buddhism could be considered delusional .

Santa is meant to be a physical being, not a spirit like God.

Says who? We know that St Nick was a normal human being. Well actually we don't know that for certain, but we presume he was. However there must have been some kind of transformation. After he died (which he surely must of), he went from a human to a spiritual being who was able to perform magic tricks.

If it can work for Jesus, why not Santa?

Yes, we do know that for certain. The Bishop Nicholas did exist. Santa was never claimed to be God incarnate/the Son of God.

God lives in heaven which is not of this world, Santa lives at the North Pole.

Ah, but have you ever been to the North Pole to confirm this? As far as I am aware nobody has ever been able to locate Santa's workshop or for that matter any elves. So perhaps it must be a spiritual realm? One that cannot be visited by normal humans? Perhaps the elves too are simply like angelic beings or something similar.
We must surely consider the fact that Santa lives in a spiritual realm, just like Jesus supposedly does? If it can work for Jesus, why not Santa?

At the north pole according to legend. There is no legend where it is claimed that Santa's realm is in the spirit world, unlike Jesus.

The premises are not the same.

They seem very similar to me. If we can make claims for one, we can make the same claims for another.

If Santa was also considered God incarnate/Son of God, then it could be plausible.

But God is not a "guy". He does not possess a human body

Well clearly Santa can't possibly be an ordinary guy with a human body either, other wise how would he get down modern chimneys? How could he possibly survive the centrifugal forces that the sleigh would have to travel to reach the speeds it needs to get to, to be able to reach its required destinations on time? It seems that Santa would have to be some kind of spiritual being, which would explain why he has never been captured or seen. It is why you cannot go to the North Pole and visit him.

Do you have any historical sources to back up the claims that Santa is a spiritual being?

[Claire Evans]

[Replying to post 278 by Claire Evans]



[center]
God is a character in a fairy tale for kids.[/center]

The kid's version of Santa Claus doesn't exist.

We atheists might say the same of "God".

He might have started off as a scary monster in a story for kids, too. Around a campfire, a long long time ago. Clever story teller, enthralled and maybe even terrified kids, I bet.

I am a pretty good campfire story teller myself.
You should just SEE the eyes of the little kids....

BIG and wide... But even if the stories were a little TOO scary ( they asked me that I tell them scary stories ) They came BACK for more. Inevitably.

Tell us the one about the scary monster who drowns the whole planet, and then has his son die on a cross, Blastcat !!!

The Father did not drown the world, for starters. Do we have historical documents arguing the case for the existence of a supernatural Santa? For example, was he accused of witchcraft like Jesus was? Are there 5000 pieces of documents recording the life of Santa? We can analyse the claims by the writers of the gospels by taking apart the gospel narrative in the process of elimination. Truly you don't believe Jesus and Santa are in the same league?

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 286 by Claire Evans]

They can be considered delusional but it is not a far out concept to be able to communicate with the spiritual world through prayer. People meditate.

Meditation is a method to remove yourself from the three-dimensional world and initiate communication with the high realms of Heaven of in the Spirit World. The purpose of meditation is to discover our true selves – a spiritual being residing in a physical body; and experience true happiness by feeling free from the restrictions of this physical world."

Many who meditate claim to have spirit guides and it could lead to demonic possession.

I meditate all the time and nothing like what you describe has ever happened to me.

If Santa was also considered God incarnate/Son of God, then it could be plausible.

...so all that needs to be done for the Santa story to be considered plausible in your mind...is that someone needs to say they consider him to be God incarnate/Son of God?
Is that right? That's all that needs to be done? Just...make a claim? No evidence needs to be shown that he actually IS God incarnate?

The Father did not drown the world, for starters.

That's what it says in the Old Testament.

Do we have historical documents arguing the case for the existence of a supernatural Santa? For example, was he accused of witchcraft like Jesus was? Are there 5000 pieces of documents recording the life of Santa? We can analyse the claims by the writers of the gospels by taking apart the gospel narrative in the process of elimination. Truly you don't believe Jesus and Santa are in the same league?

What you don't seem to understand is that thousands of anecdotes don't turn into data. The plural of anecdote is not data.
Thousands of pages about a proposed supernatural being do not suddenly mean that the supernatural being must exist.
Neither BC nor myself are impressed by the existence of thousands of pages talking about this proposed being. All that is evidence for...is the existence of the pages themselves.
Nothing more, nothing less.
When it comes to Jesus and Santa, I do consider them in the same league. They are both proposed supernatural beings, with supernatural abilities or powers, said to be able to do things far beyond us mere humans. The fact that one has more pages devoted to him does not render that one more 'likely' to exist.
Consider this hypothetical. What if one day we found ten thousand pages (so double the number you say) from a thousand years ago detailing the life of the Last Son of Krypton? Who is able to leap tall buildings in a single bound and has heat vision?
According to the logic you espouse, we would have to consider the Last Son of Krypton to be real, because after all...we have all these pages. Never mind that all we have is text, we don't have his bones or any other physical artifacts, or anything at all to suggest that heat vision is even plausible...we have the pages. We have the text.
Someone took the time to write it down God damn it and just why isn't that enough for us arrogant atheists?

[Joe1950]

[Replying to post 278 by Claire Evans]



[center]
God is a character in a fairy tale for kids.[/center]

The kid's version of Santa Claus doesn't exist.

We atheists might say the same of "God".

He might have started off as a scary monster in a story for kids, too. Around a campfire, a long long time ago. Clever story teller, enthralled and maybe even terrified kids, I bet.

I am a pretty good campfire story teller myself.
You should just SEE the eyes of the little kids....

BIG and wide... But even if the stories were a little TOO scary ( they asked me that I tell them scary stories ) They came BACK for more. Inevitably.

Tell us the one about the scary monster who drowns the whole planet, and then has his son die on a cross, Blastcat !!!

The Father did not drown the world, for starters. Do we have historical documents arguing the case for the existence of a supernatural Santa? For example, was he accused of witchcraft like Jesus was? Are there 5000 pieces of documents recording the life of Santa? We can analyse the claims by the writers of the gospels by taking apart the gospel narrative in the process of elimination. Truly you don't believe Jesus and Santa are in the same league?

I just googled the word "Santa Claus" to see if there are any "documents". Well, there are over 101,000,000 references. Pretty good evidence, I would say. Plenty of documentation!

[Joe1950]

Do you have any historical sources to back up the claims that Santa is a spiritual being?

In the article by Norman Patterson in the "Canadian Magazine" 1902, volume 20 he clearly states that Santa Claus is a "spiritual" being. This is an historical document for over 100 years ago. No one has ever debunked Patterson's claim !