Would you tolerate your beliefs if they were irrational?

[Wootah]

Would you tolerate your beliefs if they were irrational?

If there was a logical chain that was demonstrated to be a contradiction would you still follow your beliefs or would you simply accept that God could do all things?

For instance suppose you had to accept that square circles existed. Would you claim that God could make square circles or would you abandon your beliefs?

I for one would not follow my beliefs once I knew they were irrational. Would you?

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 4 by Divine Insight]

I fear you are the one collapsing terms now. It makes no sense to say reality is logical. Logic is quite separate from reality.

If I call it formal logic does that make more sense?

If your beliefs contradicted formal logic then would you abandon them?

Yes I would abandon beliefs that contradict formal logic. This is why I have rejected Christianity which I had been taught to believe in since early childhood by irrational and illogical parents, elders, and clergy.

Why do you ask?

In the OP you say:

For instance suppose you had to accept that square circles existed. Would you claim that God could make square circles or would you abandon your beliefs?

I for one would not follow my beliefs once I knew they were irrational. Would you?

Are you a theist?

Is so, are you proclaiming that your God cannot create a geometry where square circles can exist?

Are you basically demanding that your God must not violate anything that you feel is "rational"?

Do you disagree with Jesus in Mark 10?

Mark 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 11 by Divine Insight]

I think I would rewrite the OP to focus on formal logic.

I believe Jesus but it's not necessary to interpret Jesus as saying God can do the illogical. All Jesus is saying is God can do things that are not possible for us to do.

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 11 by Divine Insight]

I think I would rewrite the OP to focus on formal logic.

I believe Jesus but it's not necessary to interpret Jesus as saying God can do the illogical. All Jesus is saying is God can do things that are not possible for us to do.

But where is there any logic in a God who has always existed yet he is still creating new humans to be his "devoted servants".

Also, don't you think that since he's been doing this sort of thing over an over again eternally he would have it down better by now?

Has this God created infinitely many worlds in the past? Logically speaking, if he exists eternally then surely he has. Did he have to have humans crucify his only begotten son in all those previous worlds too, so that they too can enter his eternal kingdom via grace and never on their own merit lest they could boast as Paul says?

It seems to me that all you are basically doing is attempting to claim that your God is "logical" and thus worthy of being believed.

I don't see where there is anything logical about a God who commands men, "Thou shalt not kill" and then turns right back around and commands them to stone people to death for every little petty sin.

In fact, I would call that an outright logical contradiction.

I reject Christianity and all of the Abrahamic religions precisely because of their endless logical contradictions.

[McCulloch]

[T]he rationalist orthodoxy that one should never believe in what is irrational is nothing more than a philosophical ideal. It is not the way humans work.

I agree. It is an ideal. It is a good and noble ideal which we should ever strive towards, even though we may never fully achieve it.

[marco]

I for one would not follow my beliefs once I knew they were irrational. Would you?

And yet....and yet ..... The Son is God, the Father if God, the Holy Spirit is God and this makes three Gods? No - it makes ONE God. We add 1 and 1 and 1 and we get 1, which is irrational. Yet we believe in the Trinity.

Tertullian said: credo quia absurdum est - I believe because it's absurd (or irrational.) Believing in the irrational comes with the badge of faith, surely.

[Wootah]

I for one would not follow my beliefs once I knew they were irrational. Would you?

And yet....and yet ..... The Son is God, the Father if God, the Holy Spirit is God and this makes three Gods? No - it makes ONE God. We add 1 and 1 and 1 and we get 1, which is irrational. Yet we believe in the Trinity.

Tertullian said: credo quia absurdum est - I believe because it's absurd (or irrational.) Believing in the irrational comes with the badge of faith, surely.

I wonder if tertullian regrets saying that. Also I wonder what the context was. I would agree that many actions of a Christian are irrational according to the world. Love your enemies comes to mind.

But I dont think you were focusing there.

Regard the Trinity like this. A team is compromised of individual being all working towards a goal. The more cohesive the team the better they function. We can compare an international soccer team to a team of weekend warriors to get my meaning. The more the 11 players (to stick with soccer) act as one the more likely they will win.

So if you understand how 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1=1 in the above how much simpler the Trinity?

[marco]

I wonder if tertullian regrets saying that. Also I wonder what the context was.

If he is with his Maker now, I suppose regret is a foreign country. He was referring to the death and resurrection of the Son of God. But yes, his words have been used against him.

Regard the Trinity like this. A team is comprised of individual beings all working towards a goal. The more cohesive the team the better they function. We can compare an international soccer team to a team of weekend warriors to get my meaning. The more the 11 players (to stick with soccer) act as one the more likely they will win.

So if you understand how 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1=1 in the above how much simpler the Trinity?

Well that is a good poetic illustration of how many can act as one. Your equation of course is poetically correct but not literally so. And there ends any parallel with the Trinity. Each unit in your team makes up the team; each person in the Trinity is not one third of God, but entirely God. There are not three Gods but one. We can say J is God, F is God and S is God; but we cannot say: J is the football team, S is the football team etc.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 17 by marco]

That may not be a matter of irrationality but of language. Perhaps we can say J is the football team but it just sounds irregular to our ears.

[marco]

[Replying to post 17 by marco]

That may not be a matter of irrationality but of language. Perhaps we can say J is the football team but it just sounds irregular to our ears.

Well I agree that we can make language fit our expectations. Louis xiv famously declared that he was the State. And Jesus suggested he was the vine. If you are saying that the concept of the Trinity can be viewed in a figurative way, then there is no mystery at all. But you have thrown monotheism away.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 17 by marco]

That may not be a matter of irrationality but of language. Perhaps we can say J is the football team but it just sounds irregular to our ears.

Well I agree that we can make language fit our expectations. Louis xiv famously declared that he was the State. And Jesus suggested he was the vine. If you are saying that the concept of the Trinity can be viewed in a figurative way, then there is no mystery at all. But you have thrown monotheism away.

No I haven't.

Monotheism is one God. Polytheism is many. Keep that in mind and you'll be able to use it again. In life but more likely on this forum.