God, the MOA, Omnipresence and Hell

[rikuoamero]

In the recent debates about the Modal Ontological Argument, God or the MGB has been defined (in part) as being omni-present. That is, existing everywhere.
If one watches the first minute of the following video
[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

we hear from William Lane Craig, the same guy who proposes the Modal Ontological Argument, that hell is a separation from God.

Wait a minute. How can one be separate from God...if God is omni-present?

So question for debate - How can standard Christian doctrines of hell be compatible with the definition of God in the Modal Ontological Argument?

[ttruscott]

So God is all knowing, all loving, and all present, but apparently impotent to sort out the ever growing pile of souls in agony in Hell. Fascinating.

While orthodoxy contends that new people are created every day, not everyone does and no one thinks that there is anyone in hell yet that I know off...and many reject hell altogether so your sound bite fails...

[benchwarmer]

So God is all knowing, all loving, and all present, but apparently impotent to sort out the ever growing pile of souls in agony in Hell. Fascinating.

While orthodoxy contends that new people are created every day, not everyone does and no one thinks that there is anyone in hell yet that I know off...and many reject hell altogether so your sound bite fails...

Well, if we can get two Christians to agree on the entire theology, including Hell, that would be a great start. Here's a random thread supplied by google that shoots your theory down:

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy ... n-it-today

Some people do think hell exists and there are souls currently in it. Are they right? Does hell even exist? Does a god even exist? Your guess is as good as any other I suppose. Since the Bible holds no sway as far as verification of any of this, in this subforum, my opinion/guess/sound bite is as good as any other as well.

[agnosticatheist]

In the recent debates about the Modal Ontological Argument, God or the MGB has been defined (in part) as being omni-present. That is, existing everywhere.
If one watches the first minute of the following video
[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

we hear from William Lane Craig, the same guy who proposes the Modal Ontological Argument, that hell is a separation from God.

Wait a minute. How can one be separate from God...if God is omni-present?

So question for debate - How can standard Christian doctrines of hell be compatible with the definition of God in the Modal Ontological Argument?

If the entity that the Bible claims to be God is omnipresent, that means they were present at the safehouse in Vietnam that former CIA employee John Stockwell was responsible for:

"I had to work with the sadistic police chief. When I reported that he liked to carve people with knives in the CIA safe-house - when I reported this to my bosses, they said, `(1). The post was too important to close down. (2). They weren't going to get the man transferred or fired because that would make problems, political problems, and he was very good at working with us in the operations he worked on. (3). Therefore if I didn't have the stomach for the job, that they could transfer me.'

But they hastened to point out, if I did demonstrate a lack of `moral fiber' to handle working with the sadistic police chief, that I wouldn't get another good job in the CIA, it would be a mark against my career."

https://ia902709.us.archive.org/32/item ... ckwell.pdf

If the entity that the Bible says is God is omnipresent, that means they were present in Nicaragua when the contras were on the loose:

"Systematically, the contras have been assassinating religious workers, teachers, health workers, elected officials, government administrators. You remember the assassination manual? that surfaced in 1984. It caused such a stir that President Reagan had to address it himself in the presidential debates with Walter Mondale. They use terror. This is a technique that they're using to traumatize the society so that it can't function.

I don't mean to abuse you with verbal violence, but you have to understand what your government and its agents are doing. They go into villages, they haul out families. With the children forced to watch they castrate the father, they peel the skin off his face, they put a grenade in his mouth and pull the pin. With the children forced to watch they gang-rape the mother, and slash her breasts off. And sometimes for variety, they make the parents watch while they do these things to the children.

This is nobody's propaganda. There have been over 100,000 American witnesses for peace who have gone down there and they have filmed and photographed and witnessed these atrocities immediately after they've happened, and documented 13,000 people killed this way, mostly women and children. These are the activities done by these contras. The contras are the people president Reagan calls `freedom fighters'. He says they're the moral equivalent of our founding fathers. And the whole world gasps at this confession of his family traditions."

https://ia902709.us.archive.org/32/item ... ckwell.pdf

If the entity that the Bible claims is God actually exists, I would personally shoot it in the mouth.

No good god would stand by and let this stuff happen. Any god who would allow this to happen is evil.

Maybe there is a god, and instead of being a benevolent deity, it is a malevolent deity. Now there's a possibility theists nor atheists want to think about. Lol

I mean really??? What good can come out of a child being forced to watch while their parents are mutilated and raped? What kind of good can come from parents being to forced while their children are mutilated and raped?

Where's the higher purpose in that??? Where's the good?

Some of those people probably lost connection to reality. How are they going to be witnessed to when they are no longer even living in reality?

If it wasn't for the goodness in my heart, I would probably wish for Christians to actually have to go through that, to see true, pure evil.

[ttruscott]

Where's the higher purpose in that??? Where's the good?

The knowledge of 1. their great evil which must be destroyed or eliminated some way or other, and 2. the awareness of our own sinfulness that means we must find a saviour if we are not to be destroyed also...

One of my hardest problems has been to get people to accept there really is great evil in this world. Such things help a lot...

[marco]

We hear from William Lane Craig, the same guy who proposes the Modal Ontological Argument, that hell is a separation from God.

He uses words well but he has no valid information on hell or on God. But he certainly sounds as if he has, and that's what matters.

Wait a minute. How can one be separate from God...if God is omni-present?

Yes, its a complex two-way thing. God is all pervading but the sinner isn't; God can make his presence felt to those he likes and deny himself to those who have offended him. So they feel cut off; just like a mum not speaking to her naughty child. The child is cut off but the mum is still there. And I should imagine God's huffs will be infinite.

[wiploc]

Yes, its a complex two-way thing.

Or it's just equivocation. You wouldn't let your kid rationalize that way about her report card.