Jesus' teachings. Profound?

[McCulloch]

Perhaps, but for me the miracle things are secondary, in comparison to what Jesus taught. The teachings of Jesus are for me the greatest thing, not the miracles.

In what way are Jesus' teachings extraordinary? Can it be demonstrated that Jesus had great insight? What profound wisdom is there in Jesus' teachings?

[Danmark]

Perhaps, but for me the miracle things are secondary, in comparison to what Jesus taught. The teachings of Jesus are for me the greatest thing, not the miracles.

In what way are Jesus' teachings extraordinary? Can it be demonstrated that Jesus had great insight? What profound wisdom is there in Jesus' teachings?

There is certainly nothing unique in anything he taught. There's nothing that demonstrates divine inspiration, nothing one can't find in Buddhism or Ghandi. What is so striking about the Bible is its prosaic, human quality. It reflects its human authors, as do the same ideas

I do not write this to minimize the greatness of Jesus of Nazareth. There is much to like and admire in the record, particularly if one ignores the preaching and imagination of the author of the G of John and the pontificating of Paul.

Jesus was followed because of his charisma, his humor, his honesty. I am not a theist, but I still love the Jesus I came to know as a child.

[JP Cusick]

In what way are Jesus' teachings extraordinary? Can it be demonstrated that Jesus had great insight? What profound wisdom is there in Jesus' teachings?

I find that most people who claim to follow Jesus simply do not ever put His words into realistic action and so the depth of the words being deeply profound is missed by most people.

The late great Mahatma Gandhi was in many ways the one (1) person who showed the words of Jesus to be deep and profound, while many professed Christians still today deny this reality and its implications.

An example is Jesus telling people to = Turn the other cheek. Matthew 5:39

In orthodox Christianity it means to accept violence and to be passive, of course now even that is being changed into = call the police and get the slapper arrested, or if ye want then we fight against those who strike us. LINK.

But the words do not say that at all, as turning the other cheek means to prompt or even to provoke the violent person to strike us again and repeatedly as we defy them.

Gandhi called this as = Civil disobedience. See here SHORT VIDEO.

Jesus teachings having great insight was always meant as being things for us to do (Matthew 5:19) and not to just believe or to analyze, as such many teachings are super simple in words but profoundly deep in actions.

Another profound insight from the Gospel is that Jesus turned His death by execution into an act of Martyrdom.

Other people like Socrates took their own life but they were never viewed as a Martyr, and it was Jesus that made the big change and distinction which has made Martyrs into a major factor in the world ever since.

[Elijah John]

Perhaps, but for me the miracle things are secondary, in comparison to what Jesus taught. The teachings of Jesus are for me the greatest thing, not the miracles.

In what way are Jesus' teachings extraordinary? Can it be demonstrated that Jesus had great insight? What profound wisdom is there in Jesus' teachings?

I agree with Marco, that for his time the teachings of Jesus were remarkable. The subtle nature, nuance and wisdom of those lessons elude his modern detractors.

Some examples?

-"It is not what goes into the mouth which defiles a person, but what comes out".

That saying was against the convention of the day, defying ritual and dietary purity law.

And he is killing two birds with one stone. Defying dietary law, as well as teaching caution with one's words.

-"When you pray, do so in secret"

The nuance of this teaching is that God is real, He hears and He sees. Praying "in secret, and (not in order to be seen by men) affirms one's faith in the reality of God.

-"do good to one's enemies".

That way, you are covered. It the emnity is based on a misunderstanding, then doing good(or at the very least not seeking revenge) gives the other space and opportunity to repent, and heal the relationship.

Doing good, or at least having the willingness to forgive others is just plain good psychology. It relieves one of the burden of carrying hatred in one's soul. Grudge- bearing is poisonous.

Modern psychology affirms this.

Once again, Jesus was ahead of his time.

I agree with 1213, that Jesus teachings were more important, and I would add even if the miracles never occured. Even if the miracle of the resurrection never occured...Jesus lives on, in his teachings.

[Danmark]

Another profound insight from the Gospel is that Jesus turned His death by execution into an act of Martyrdom.

Other people like Socrates took their own life but they were never viewed as a Martyr, and it was Jesus that made the big change and distinction which has made Martyrs into a major factor in the world ever since.

Jesus did not do anything after his death, unless you buy into the supernatural stuff, which should not be presumed since that is part of the point of this subforum.

And martyrdom is hardly exclusive to Christianity.
http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-brave-martyrs-know.php

Again, Gandhi among many others serves as an example. Martyrdom has little to do with the one who is killed. That status comes from the victim' followers after death.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 9 by DanieltheDragon]

Anyone who has read the teachings of Socrates and Jesus are in a position to make such a claim. I probably wouldn't elavate Jesus to the level of Socrates but to each their own. As Socrates gave us the Socratic method and Jesus well didn't really give much except for treat people with respect and the golden rule which were not really new insights.

That doesn't clarify at all. I've read Plato quite substantially. And he's definitely my top 2-3 all time. But I can't say what you say here.

Is it the Socratic method that makes you say this? Jesus displays method too with his interlocutors... Equally as effective methinks. Is it the rational breakdown and long strings of arguments involved in Socrates' method? I kind of prefer the parabolic nature of Jesus'. Shorter. Pithier. Far more thought-provoking than long-strung out arguments that invite gnit-picking at every point...

But hey, maybe I'm not as discerning as you. Still, some kind of argument would be helpful.

Please be more specific about The Jesus method and remember Socrates came long before Jesus so if it is similar in approach to The Socratic method then it is not a contribution of Jesus but merely Jesus copying others.

If you think the Socratic method involves gnit-picking then your doing it wrong. it is supposed to be practiced co-operatviely rather than adversarialy.

[marco]

[Replying to marco]

Placed in the time he lived his sayings are pretty insightful but certainly no more so than those of Socrates

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I am curious what puts you in a position to make such a claim?

I could have picked many others - I simply took people who showed insight and influence in their times. Like you I've played with Plato at university and Socrates had a great influence on him. In addition Socrates shines out by the manner in which he chose death over exile; he and Seneca demonstrated a philosophical calmness, facing death. It is not demeaning to Jesus to place him in this company.

[Danmark]

I agree with Marco, that for his time the teachings of Jesus were remarkable. The subtle nature, nuance and wisdom of those lessons elude his modern detractors.

Some examples?

-"It is not what goes into the mouth which defiles a person, but what comes out".

That saying was against the convention of the day, defying ritual and dietary purity law.

And he is killing two birds with one stone. Defying dietary law, as well as teaching caution with one's words.

-"When you pray, do so in secret"

Yes, remarkable and even profound, but not unique. Among other things, like many great charismatic leaders, Jesus had a gift for using humor and earthy common language to make a point.
His "It is not what goes into the mouth which defiles a person, but what comes out" was prefaced by his fairly graphic argument that what one eats goes thru the body and comes with the bad stuff eliminated as bodily waste.

From the time I was a child in church, to this very day, I've noticed the admonition to pray in secret is seldom followed by preachers. Even as a youth it was obvious their public prayers were sermons the congregation, not true prayers to God. Mark Twain has fun with this in Letters to the Recording Angel where he distinguishes 'prayer meeting prayers' from 'secret supplications of the heart.'

[JP Cusick]

Jesus did not do anything after his death, unless you buy into the supernatural stuff, which should not be presumed since that is part of the point of this subforum.

I do buy into the resurrection but that is beside the point that I was making.

The topic ask about profound teaching of Jesus and to that Jesus gets the credit for creating the weapon of Martyrdom, and that came before the crucifixion that Jesus orchestrated His own execution as done today being death by police, because the Roman government in those days were the Police.

After the death (whether a resurrection or not) then humanity learned the weapon of being a Martyr against brute force and against inhuman authority.

This is some thing that Jesus taught, and after that people learned it.

And martyrdom is hardly exclusive to Christianity.
http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-brave-martyrs-know.php

It was started by Jesus - and that is my point.

Yes there have been many following in martyrdom ever after.

Socrates was given the claim of being a martyr long after Jesus created this, because Socrates did not begin this identity.

Again, Gandhi among many others serves as an example. Martyrdom has little to do with the one who is killed. That status comes from the victim' followers after death.

The topic here is what profound insight did Jesus teach, and being a martyr is just one of many.

The Mahatma Gandhi did give lots of profound insights but martyrdom is not one of the merits given to Gandhi. He always preached about the virtue of facing death with courage (being a martyr) but that is not the same as doing the deed.

[1213]

Perhaps, but for me the miracle things are secondary, in comparison to what Jesus taught. The teachings of Jesus are for me the greatest thing, not the miracles.

In what way are Jesus' teachings extraordinary? Can it be demonstrated that Jesus had great insight? What profound wisdom is there in Jesus' teachings?

Unfortunately, greatness is pretty subjective matter. That is why I think no one can answer to this here, where subjective opinions are worth nothing.

Also, if you have read the Bible, and don’t see greatness, I don’t think you will see it, even after I would say why I think so.

But if you insist, I say:

The ensemble of Jesus teachings is in my opinion impressive. All the details form great message that has been very useful for me. It teaches great things about future, people and good and right. It has given me good understanding that has helped me greatly in everyday life. With those words, I have managed to avoid many mistakes.

[oldbadger]

In what way are Jesus' teachings extraordinary?

They were not 'teachings' but campaign speeches, really...

Can it be demonstrated that Jesus had great insight?

About people? In some ways he did have, but ultimately he got it wrong because the people fell away, dispersed, legged it, and left him alone....

What profound wisdom is there in Jesus' teachings?

His campaign was all about the reinstatement of the discarded laws with the exception of the 96 laws surrounding sacrifice for remission of sins. His speeches were all about the building of support for a return to justice (heaven?) on Earth, and Christians would later take his mission and spin it into........ Pauline Christianity!

I never did figure out how to describe his campaign/mission.
A person campaigning for the reinstatemrent of discarded laws is hardly a revolutionary. I don't think that insurrectionist is correct either.

Jesus was trying to win over massive support for a return of the old laws which had been discarded by a fat, greedy, careless, quisling priesthood.

Anybody got a suitable descriptive word for that?