Why are Atheists Here?

[liamconnor]

It seems to me that far more atheists frequent this site than theists.

It is also obviously apparent that non-theist members here are very, very passionate.

But why? What is your goal.


Are you trying to create atheists? But that goal does not fit the strategy, which is typically on the defensive: i.e., "Prove to me there is a God!"


So why are you here? You obviously want theists to be constantly trying to convince you of ideas you think ridiculous. This is very strange. I think Islam an error; yet I am not a member of a single Islamic site. Are you? I think Hinduism strange; still, not seeking a Hindu forum to demand evidence for their beliefs.

So, to reiterate:

what is your goal?

why specifically Christianity?

[alexxcJRO]

[Replying to liamconnor]

"It seems to me that far more atheists frequent this site than theists.
It is also obviously apparent that non-theist members here are very, very passionate.
But why? What is your goal.
Are you trying to create atheists? But that goal does not fit the strategy, which is typically on the defensive: i.e., "Prove to me there is a God!"
So why are you here? You obviously want theists to be constantly trying to convince you of ideas you think ridiculous. This is very strange. I think Islam an error; yet I am not a member of a single Islamic site. Are you? I think Hinduism strange; still, not seeking a Hindu forum to demand evidence for their beliefs.
So, to reiterate:
what is your goal? why specifically Christianity?"

You have basically straw manned me and maybe others into this: 'You obviously want theists to be constantly trying to convince you of ideas you think ridiculous. "

Q: Why?
Q: Why the need for this clearly faulty generalization?

I for example don't want to be convinced of anything. I could care less if there is a God or not.
I am here because:

1. I like to talk and argue with intelligent people.
Since the majority of people in my life are very simple: gullible, superstitious, with bellow average intelligence, with who you can't have a talk about anything serious. I decided to have this talks on the Internet.

2. I consider religion(mostly Christianity and Islam) has hold back (and it still does) our development as a civilization , it takes more then it offers, it makes people broke their moral compass , broke the Golden Rule on the regular basis which i think is illogical.

I chose Christianity because i was familiar with the dogma and because in my opinion is the most idiotic, illogical , bulls**t story i ever heard.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

It seems to me that far more atheists frequent this site than theists.

It is also obviously apparent that non-theist members here are very, very passionate.

But why? What is your goal.


Are you trying to create atheists? But that goal does not fit the strategy, which is typically on the defensive: i.e., "Prove to me there is a God!"


So why are you here? You obviously want theists to be constantly trying to convince you of ideas you think ridiculous. This is very strange. I think Islam an error; yet I am not a member of a single Islamic site. Are you? I think Hinduism strange; still, not seeking a Hindu forum to demand evidence for their beliefs.

So, to reiterate:

what is your goal?

why specifically Christianity?

The goal for non believers is to spread Christian claims out into the open and expose them critically for all to see. By the same token of course, this is a perfect opportunity for Christians to show to the world exactly why their beliefs and their claims are beyond any reasonable challenge. And good luck with that.

For non believers it's not about the expectation that any of the other Christians on the forum will change their position. It's all about the dozens or hundreds of lurkers quietly watching and considering the things that are being said here. And you are correct. Atheists now outnumber theists by a goodly margin. That was not the case when I first joined the forum in 2009. But over the years the number of theists has consistently dwindled as the number of atheists has increased. An indication, and perhaps the only true means we have of measuring, just how the debate is progressing.

[Zzyzx]

.

It seems to me that far more atheists frequent this site than theists.

Site statistics indicate an approximate balance in numbers between user group Atheist and user group Christian.

Atheists appear to be more active and successful in debate. Apologists seem to go away when they discover that the arguments that work well in church or with each other do not hold up at all well when challenged in debate on our level playing field (where no theistic position is given preferential treatment).

It is also obviously apparent that non-theist members here are very, very passionate.

Passionate is defined as: 'any powerful or compelling emotion or feeling, as love or hate' www.dictionary.com

Non-theists do not seem to base their arguments on 'powerful or compelling emotion or feeling'. 'I do not believe your god tales' is not passionate.

But why? What is your goal.

My motivation to debate here is to present readers with ideas, information, attitudes that contradict religious propaganda that permeates our society.

Are you trying to create atheists?

No. There is no need to 'create Atheists' -- all one need do is help Theists demonstrate that they cannot provide verifiable evidence to show that their claims and stories are anything more than emotional appeals based on taking someone's unverifiable word that supernatural entities originate and influence human lives (and hypothetical 'afterlives').

But that goal does not fit the strategy, which is typically on the defensive: i.e., "Prove to me there is a God!"

I, for one, do NOT ask for proof of gods -- but for verifiable evidence that CLAIMS and STORIES are true.

You obviously want theists to be constantly trying to convince you of ideas you think ridiculous.

Correction: I have no desire to be convinced to accept theistic ideas.

This is very strange.

What IS strange is when Theists misconstrue (deliberately or otherwise) the motivations of others.

I think Islam an error; yet I am not a member of a single Islamic site. Are you?

There is VERY little effort on the part of Muslims to impose their religion on me via agitating for laws that reflect their religious beliefs.

why specifically Christianity?

Christianity is the enemy of individual freedom when it has and/or exerts power to inflict its ideas on others. If Muslims or Hindus were active in inflicting their beliefs on others via national, state, and local laws, I would be active in opposing them as well.

I have no objection to people believing whatever they wish -- as long as those beliefs are not imposed on others in any way. If those beliefs are advertised in public I may choose to challenge their truth and accuracy.

Additionally, some Christians who become members exhibit an intent to 'slay the infidel' -- as though attempting to demonstrate a superiority ('I am saved and you are going to hell' -- or 'I know about gods and you do not').

[Bust Nak]

But why? What is your goal.

Exercise my brain, have my position challenged, win debates, all without having to worry about alienating real life acquaintances or loved ones.

Are you trying to create atheists?

Not any more. Like you said, it's not every effective.

You obviously want theists to be constantly trying to convince you of ideas you think ridiculous. This is very strange.

What is strange to you, is fun and games to me.

I think Islam an error; yet I am not a member of a single Islamic site. Are you? I think Hinduism strange; still, not seeking a Hindu forum to demand evidence for their beliefs... why specifically Christianity?

Firstly take this as a compliment: I think Christians are more likely to take part in a discussion without losing the focus on rationality (and straying into anger or preaching.) Secondly, Christianity has more relevance to my every day life than other religions.

[JewishVolcano]

Personally I came to this site because after reading scripture I saw logical problems with baptism of Jesus and I was interested in debating this topic. But I will debate anyone on any issue. Here I debated atheists as well.

Take Islam. Robert Spencer found interesting logical problems with history of Islam which seem to prove that Muhammad never existed and Koran was compiled long after Muhammads official life span. But that's his thing and he's sure debating it all while dodging a bullet. However as far as logical soundness of divine narrative contained in Koran - I don't see anything particullary interesting or illogical. Unlike with Christianity/Judaism.

[Willum]

I am here to teach the truth, so that if there are any divine mysteries out there, we can stop chasing propaganda, find "them" and give 'them,' a big hello!

[Elijah John]

I chose Christianity because i was familiar with the dogma and because in my opinion is the most idiotic, illogical , bulls**t story i ever heard.

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[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 1 by liamconnor]

I'm not an atheist. I'm actually a Christian who simply came to the realization that Christianity is a false dogma. It's nothing more than an ancient superstitious mythology.

Through careful and extensive study of the religion I've come to realize that it could not possible be true. This mythology not only seriously contradicts itself, but it's seriously flawed in so many ways. The attributes give to the Biblical God would be considered to be the attributes of a seriously mentally ill criminal if we saw these same traits in a human.

What seriously bothers me is the fact that so many adults who should know better continue to support and preach this religious like as if it could or should be taken seriously. I can only imagine that they are either extremely naive, or they have ulterior motives for their behavior. I do know that it's a very common characteristic of humans to continually defend a position that they have taken even when that position is no longer defensible. I definitely see this being the case with a religion like Christianity.

Let's not forget too that Christianity is not an island. Christianity is totally dependent upon upon Judaism being true. Christianity requires that the Old Testament truly be the infallible truth of God. Any errors or falsehoods in the OT bring up serious questions concerning the validity of Christianity. Not only that but the NT isn't any better. The NT is just as self-contradictory and utterly absurd as the OT.

Finally, any Christian who thinks they can just dismiss something like Islam whilst maintaining that Christianity must be true is in some serious denial. In fact, just look at Islam. Look at how many millions of people, including serious clergy and educated scholars would need to have been fooled by Islam?

Surely you can see that the very same thing is going on with Islam. It's just people who defend the in defensible because they somehow got caught up in it and now they can't admit that they have been duped by an ancient false mythology that became socially popular. It's the same type of behavior. People are just refusing to face the fact that they have been convinced of something that is clearly false.

There is absolutely no rational or even sane reason to support any of these Abraham religions. In a very real sense Christianity is even the most utterly absurd.

Just think about it. Christianity has this God sending his only begotten Son to earth through a virgin birth of a moral woman. The entire plan is to have this demigod Son teach a very incoherent message to a bunch of losers over a very short period of time of about 3 years, only to then be brutally crucified by this God's very own Chief Priests. And all for what? So he can hold this over the heads of the rest of humanity proclaiming that anyone who doesn't believe in this utter nonsense deserves to be damned?

You've got to be kidding me! Seriously.

When you stop and think about it both Judaism and Islam make far more sense than Christianity. At least they don't have this God sending his only begotten Son to be butchered on a pole proclaiming that anyone who doesn't believe in him will be damned.

Christianity is not only an insult to humanity, but it's actually an insult to the very idea of a "God" in any case.

Moreover, I wouldn't even suggest converting over to Judaism or Islam, because even though those two factions of this ancient mythology are a bit more sane, they too are still utterly absurd.

So I'm here to help people realize that the entire Abrahamic picture of "God" is clearly nothing more than an extremely ignorant superstitious mythology that cannot possibly have anything to do with any God.

As far as being an "Atheist" is concerned, I'm actually only an atheist with respect to the Abrahamic religions including Christianity. I don't claim that there cannot be a "God", in fact, I encourage people who are interested in believing in a "God" to look into more sane religions like Buddhism. At least Buddhism is a respectable religion that has a respectable ideal of "God". (at least in the most general abstract sense). I certainly don't support every "faction" of Buddhism because, just like all other religions, humans tend to add absurd claims to their specific "cults". So there not doubt exist sects of Buddhism that make outrageous and utterly absurd claims about what they think "God" might be too.

None the less, I don't demand pure "atheism", or a belief in "Pure Secular Materialism" is the only rational philosophy. In fact, I hold that a philosophy of "Pure Secular Materialism" has its own problems. So I don't frown on spiritual beliefs of a possible mystical reality.

But the idea that some angry jealous God planned to have his Son brutally butchered on a pole by his very own corrupt Priests, and that he had to do this in order to offer us salvation from HIS WRATH is simply utterly absurd.

The Bible cannot be true because of the endless self-contradictions it contains.

However, even if that wasn't the case, the Biblical God wouldn't be worthy of our respect, love of worship even if he actually did exist as the Bible claims. If our Creator is like the God of the Bible, then we were created by a seriously mentally ill criminal mind.

Christianity is utterly absurd, and my goal and purpose is to share this TRUTH with as many people who are willing to listen.

I also view people who continue to support Christianity as people who have extremely horrible moral values. If you think that the behavior of the Biblical God represents "morality" then I would not want you living in my neighborhood.

Fortunately most "Christians" who attempt to defend and apologize for Christianity are in extreme denial of the immorality of the Biblical God. They make endless excuses for these immoral behaviors, none of which make any rational sense at all. But at least they show that even they feel that they need to continually makes excuses for the Biblical God. So clearly they are aware that there are problems even though they don't seem to realize that it's the entire religion that is the problem.

[McCulloch]

[Replying to post 1 by liamconnor]

Why debate Christianity rather than Islam?

1. Criticizing Christianity is safer in this century than criticizing Islam.
2. Challenging my own previously held beliefs helps me to prevent getting fooled again.
3. Christianity, because it is far more prevalent in our society, poses a greater danger to our advances in human rights.