JWs consider God's Kingdom to be a Government

[JehovahsWitness]

Jehovah's Witnesses believe God's Kingdom for which many Christians have prayed throughout the ages to be a (heavenly) government (three words).

What, in three or four words if possible, do you believe it to be?

(Many Christians I have met have said its "A feeling" (in one's heart).

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus has a government, the kingdom is a system of rulership and they are both directly related. Is it conceivable that they are in fact be one and the same thing? If not why?

No, they are not one and the same.

They are directly reated in the sense that the kingdom, as does any nation, has a government, and any government operates by a system of rulership.

However, that governnment, that system of rulership, are not the kingdom, but ways it is seen and felt.

So you are saying (correct me if I'm wrong) that Jesus' goverment RULES OVER the kingdom (ie the kingdom has a government). And that the government is a "system of rulership".

But didn't you earlier say that THE KINGDOM = is = a system of rulership?

[Checkpoint]

Jesus has a government, the kingdom is a system of rulership and they are both directly related. Is it conceivable that they are in fact be one and the same thing? If not why?

No, they are not one and the same.

They are directly reated in the sense that the kingdom, as does any nation, has a government, and any government operates by a system of rulership.

However, that governnment, that system of rulership, are not the kingdom, but ways it is seen and felt.

So you are saying (correct me if I'm wrong) that Jesus' goverment RULES OVER the kingdom (ie the kingdom has a government). And that the government is a "system of rulership".

The kingdom has a government that has rule within it, wherever and whenever God's will is being done on earth as it is in heaven.

But didn't you earlier say that THE KINGDOM = is = a system of rulership

Please, that is what I addressed in my post #72.

That was written to make the original intention of my words quite clear, in the context of my other posts to you on this thread.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 92 by Checkpoint]

Isn't a reign a "system of rulership"...? Since the kingdom is a reign, and a reign is a system of rulership wouldn't the kingdom be a system of rulership?

So if Jesus' Government is ALSO a system of rulership and it "has a reign/kingdom" (which is a system of rulership) wouldn't that be like saying "the system of rulership HAS a system of rulership"?

[kayky]

The Kingdom of God is not a future event. It is here now, both within us and all around us. I do not think Jesus will ever set up a literal kingdom on this earth. If we want the kingdoms of this world to look more like the Kingdom of God, it can only happen one awakening soul at a time who chooses to live there.

[JehovahsWitness]

The Kingdom of God is not a future event. It is here now, both within us and all around us.

So basically, God's kingdom is air?

[kayky]

In reality God's Kingdom embraces all of creation, including air! God is Spirit, and in the Scriptures that Spirit is often referred to as breath or wind. But we are the only beings who feel alienated from that Kingdom. Other creatures abide there naturally without question. We are the ones who who have hidden ourselves from it out of ignorance and fear. But if we open our hearts and minds to God, we can enter that Kingdom now.

[onewithhim]

I do not think the Kingdom of God has anything to do with earthly government. The Kingdom of God exists both within us and all around us. We can choose to live in that Kingdom at any moment. It is a matter of awareness. We make that choice every time we view the world through the lens of love.

Then how do you explain Daniel 2:44 and Isaiah 9:6?

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[onewithhim]

The Kingdom of God is not a future event. It is here now, both within us and all around us. I do not think Jesus will ever set up a literal kingdom on this earth. If we want the kingdoms of this world to look more like the Kingdom of God, it can only happen one awakening soul at a time who chooses to live there.

What about the souls that choose to continue to prey on other people? What if they NEVER awaken?

The Bible indicates that it is God Himself who has to step in, and He is about to do that by means of His appointed King, Jesus Christ.

"Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years." (Revelation 20:6, NASB)

"[Thou] hast made them for our God a kingdom and priests, and they shall reign over the earth." (Revelation 5:10, Holy Trinity Edition of the Catholic Bible)


So the Kingdom is much more than something inside people. It is a real government, with rulers and subjects. It also has a seat, or, headquarters, which is heaven. Its realm involves the "courtyard" of that government....the earth, upon which its subjects live.

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[kayky]

Then how do you explain Daniel 2:44 and Isaiah 9:6?

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The ancient Jews believed that it was their destiny that they would someday rule the world as God's chosen people and that this would be ushered in by the Messiah.
But Jesus put an end to this misguided thinking. He made it very clear that the Kingdom of God is not of this world. Rather it is a spiritual state of mind and a way of living in the world.

[kayky]

What about the souls that choose to continue to prey on other people? What if they NEVER awaken?

The Bible indicates that it is God Himself who has to step in, and He is about to do that by means of His appointed King, Jesus Christ.

"Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years." (Revelation 20:6, NASB)

"[Thou] hast made them for our God a kingdom and priests, and
What about the souls that choose to continue to prey on other people? What if they NEVER awaken?

The Bible indicates that it is God Himself who has to step in, and He is about to do that by means of His appointed King, Jesus Christ.

"Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years." (Revelation 20:6, NASB)

"[Thou] hast made them for our God a kingdom and priests, and they shall reign over the earth." (Revelation 5:10, Holy Trinity Edition of the Catholic Bible)


So the Kingdom is much more than something inside people. It is a real government, with rulers and subjects. It also has a seat, or, headquarters, which is heaven. Its realm involves the "courtyard" of that government....the earth, upon which its subjects live.

.

Whatever spiritual state you are in at death will go with you to the grave. What happens after that I have no way of knowing.

I don't think God ever has or ever will directly intervene in events here on earth. Simple observation tells me that is not how God functions. But my own experience also tells me that the love of God is always available to us, and it calls us to enter the Kingdom.

The Revelation of John is not about future events. This is a common misconception that most contemporary biblical scholars would reject although it has made millions of dollars in book sales by the Lindseys, the LaHayes, and the Hagees of this world.
Revelation is about the ancient Roman Empire and describes events that have already taken place. None of its strange imagery should be taken literally.

So I have to disagree that the Kingdom of God refers to a literal governmental system. Remember that the universe is billions of years old. God is patient.