Do you believe that all scripture really "God breathed&

[polonius]

2 Timothy 3:16-17New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

16 All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 so that everyone who belongs to God may be proficient, equipped for every good work.

If scripture is indeed authored by God, does God make occasional errors?

A Biblical fundamentalist will frequently try to prove what they want someone to believe by quoting (at least their interpretation) of a scripture passage, and hence not consider the fact that that scripture itself may be in error.

But don't scriptural contradictions prove that not all scripture is divinely inspired (or God-breathed)?:?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by polonius.advice]

Personally yes I do.

Of course everyone has their own interpretation of what "God breathed". I have no doubt that there are those that believe that a work can be "God breathed" and still contain contradictions, and they would have a point since nobody can give a definitive answer as to what "God breathed" means, they can only say what they sincerely believe "God breathed means". Some will claim it must mean no contradictions, others will beg to differ.

Myself I believe "God breathed" means that the thoughts and ideas originated with God and thus while humans wrote them down (rather like a secretary writes a letter on behalf of his or her boss), the final product can be said to be authored by God.

I have yet to be convinced that the bible contains any contradictions.



I have written earlier on this topic, maybe you missed it: Is the bible inerrant?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 183#852183

Who Is the Author of the Bible?
https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/VODBib ... 52_1_VIDEO

[YouTube][/youtube]

[McCulloch]

2 Timothy 3:16-17New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

16 All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 so that everyone who belongs to God may be proficient, equipped for every good work.

If scripture is indeed authored by God, does God make occasional errors?

A Biblical fundamentalist will frequently try to prove what they want someone to believe by quoting (at least their interpretation) of a scripture passage, and hence not consider the fact that that scripture itself may be in error.

But don't scriptural contradictions prove that not all scripture is divinely inspired (or God-breathed)?:?

One has to ask what does All Scripture mean. It would be anachronistic to try to claim that all scripture meant the 66 books of the Old and New Testaments. The New Testament didn't yet exist when 2 Timothy was being written. Arguably, anything written could be described as scripture, because the word literally means something written. Are Hindu and Buddhist scriptures God breathed?

Probably the best way to answer is to look at the immediate context.

You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

What sacred writings would Timothy have known from childhood? Nothing in the New Testament.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 3 by McCulloch]

"You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus."

There are two items in this scripture. #1 Things Timothy learned knowing who he learned them from, Paul and the apostles who in turn teach according to teachings of Jesus and #2 the sacred writings. So he would have been aware of both. Yet the NT as we know it was still being written but that doesn't make Timothy ignorant of what the NT was going to be teaching us later. The letters sent to the congregation by Paul, John, Peter etc were copied and passed around even during Timothy's time. He might not have known that these letters would later be added to the Bible but that doesn't mean he didn't read at least some of what was to become the NT.

[polonius]

Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect (Matthew 5:48).

As Don Stewart summarized:
"The perfection of God speaks of his character and his ways. God is perfect in both of these realms. This being the case there is nothing lacking in his character - there are no missing attributes.


Therefore, if the bible contains a contradiction, God cannot be the author unless he lacks the omniscience including the ability to write or inspire writing.

For example, One of the best known biblical contradictions in “divinely inspired: or “God-breathed� scripture is that of Jesus’ entry into Jerusalem. In order to fulfill a prophecy which he misinterpreted, Matthew alone among the evangelists has Jesus sending for and riding two rather than one animal into Jerusalem. None of the other three gospels report such a thing thereby clearly demonstrating a contradiction with Matthew. Some fundamentalists try to prove only one animal involved, but it’s clear that Matthew is fulfilling what he thinks is a prophecy of two animals.

Matthew 21:1-11New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

21 When they had come near Jerusalem and had reached Bethphage, at the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two disciples, 2 saying to them, “Go into the village ahead of you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied, and a colt with her; untie them and bring them to me. 3 If anyone says anything to you, just say this, ‘The Lord needs them.’ And he will send them immediately. This took place to fulfill what had been spoken through the prophet, saying,
5 “Tell the daughter of Zion,
Look, your king is coming to you,
humble, and mounted on a donkey,
and on a colt, the foal of a donkey.�
6 The disciples went and did as Jesus had directed them; 7 they brought the donkey and the colt, and put their cloaks on them, and he sat on them. 8 A very large crowd spread their cloaks on the road, and others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road. Note: Two animals


Mark 11New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

11 When they were approaching Jerusalem, at Bethphage and Bethany, near the Mount of Olives, he sent two of his disciples 2 and said to them, “Go into the village ahead of you, and immediately as you enter it, you will find tied there a colt that has never been ridden; untie it and bring it. 3 If anyone says to you, ‘Why are you doing this?’ just say this, ‘The Lord needs it and will send it back here immediately.’� 4 They went away and found a colt tied near a door, outside in the street. As they were untying it, 5 some of the bystanders said to them, “What are you doing, untying the colt?� 6 They told them what Jesus had said, and they allowed them to take it. 7 Then they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their cloaks on it, and he sat on it. 8 Many people spread their cloaks on the road, and others spread leafy branches that they had cut in the fields. Note: One animal.

Luke 19 New Revised Standard

9 When he had come near Bethphage and Bethany, at the place called the Mount of Olives, he sent two of the disciples, 30 saying, “Go into the village ahead of you, and as you enter it you will find tied there a colt that has never been ridden. Untie it and bring it here. 31 If anyone asks you, ‘Why are you untying it?’ just say this, ‘The Lord needs it.’� 32 So those who were sent departed and found it as he had told them. 33 As they were untying the colt, its owners asked them, “Why are you untying the colt?� 34 They said, “The Lord needs it.� 35 Then they brought it to Jesus; and after throwing their cloaks on the colt, they set Jesus on it. 36 As he rode along, people kept spreading their cloaks on the road. Note: One animal.

John 12New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

“Hosanna!
Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord—
the King of Israel!�
14 Jesus found a young donkey and sat on it; as it is written:
15 “Do not be afraid, daughter of Zion.
Look, your king is coming, Note: One animal.

Summary: One animal or two animals. A contradiction.

[JehovahsWitness]

Summary: One animal or two animals. A contradiction.

That they only refer to one animal does not mean that there were no other animals taken. The only way to possibly infer "contradiction" out of these accounts would be if Mark or Luke were to catagorically state that there were absolutely no other animals present. Which of course they do not.

To illustrate: If a woman tells her husband she bought a red dress and makes no mention that she also bought a green one has she contradicted someone that said she bought a red and a green dress?

If someone says "yes" this would only indicate they do not know the difference between a contradiction and an omission.


Perhaps you missed my answer to your similar post a little earlier. If so I will LINK to it here
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 416#778416

[ttruscott]

Yes I do...it say exactly what GOD wants it to say.

[polonius]

Summary: One animal or two animals. A contradiction.

That they only refer to one animal does not mean that there were no other animals taken. The only way to possibly infer "contradiction" out of these accounts would be if Mark or Luke were to catagorically state that there were absolutely no other animals present. Which of course they do not.

RESPONSE

How unrealistic!

The evangelists didn't sign affidavits either.

The gospels clearly say one animal was taken and ridden in the case of Mark, Luke, and John and two animals in the case of Matthew. The plain meaning of words and common sense is all that is necessary.

The plain meaning of words: "them" is plural "it" is singular

Did Jesus ride one one animal of two animals? That is the issue, and that is the contradiction.

[polonius]

Matthew 27:9 “Then was fulfilled what had been spoken by the prophet Jeremiah, saying, "And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him on whom a price had been set by some of the sons of Israel,�

But there is no such passage in Jeremiah.

[2timothy316]

Matthew 27:9 “Then was fulfilled what had been spoken by the prophet Jeremiah, saying, "And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him on whom a price had been set by some of the sons of Israel,�

But there is no such passage in Jeremiah.

Why does Matthew attribute the prophecy of Zechariah 11:12, 13 to Jeremiah?

The fulfillment of prophecy recorded by Matthew is based on “what was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet.� Jeremiah was at times listed as first of the “Latter Prophets,� and this section of prophecies therefore included not only Jeremiah’s writings but also those of Zechariah. (Compare Lu 24:44.) The quotation made by Matthew appears to be drawn principally from Zechariah 11:12, 13, but paraphrased by Matthew and applied to the circumstances fulfilling it, this under inspiration by God’s spirit. As a potter’s field the land would be considered as worn out and of little value, worth only the price of a slave.