Hey Christians....... Is the bible immoral?

[tryme]

What's up with this?

Deuteronomy 6:1
“Now this is the commandment, the statutes and the rules that the Lord your God commanded me to teach you

Deuteronomy 21:18-21
“If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, 19 then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, 20 and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ 21 Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones".


Now, if this Moses guy had encountered the one true living god, why couldn't he grasp some basic modern psychological principles of discipline, attatchment and child rearing? Or even maybe mental illness? And HOW IN THE WORLD DO YOU CALL THIS BOOK HOLY?

[Justin108]

[Replying to post 1 by tryme]

If your son was a criminal would you call the police?

A criminal guilty of what exactly? Notice Deuteronomy 21:18-21 simply mentions "stubborn and rebellious". This could range from something as severe as rape and murder to something as mundane as refusing to clean your room. If your son stubbornly refused to do as you say, would you have him killed?

Unless Deuteronomy 21:18-21 refers exclusively to severe acts of rape and murder, the act of killing your children for stubbornness and rebellion is simply not justified.

Yes but notice that you are asking for what crime the son committed but seem to assume that stubborn and rebellious implies low grade issues

I never said it implied low grade issues, I said it included it. So stoning to death would be a punishment for high grade crimes as well as low grade climes if we take Deuteronomy 21:18-21 by its word.

I've always assumed common sense when reading the Bible. So let's assume serious crimes.

This is nothing but confirmation bias. If I applied common sense to the Bible, the Sabbath Law would not exist at all. The Sabbath Law clearly indicates that the Jews were far more liberal about killing each other than we are in modern society. If the Jews killed each other for working on Saturdays, I see no reason why they wouldn't kill each other for disobeying their parents.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 11 by Justin108]

I find resting one day a week to be very commonsensical. You should try it and see how it goes.

[Justin108]

[Replying to post 11 by Justin108]

I find resting one day a week to be very commonsensical. You should try it and see how it goes.

Are you going to address anything I said in my post or are you going to leave this debate on a Red Herring?

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 13 by Justin108]

Sorry you were applying double standards and calling it confirmation bias. It was hard to take you seriously after that.

Working on the Sabbath is bad for everyone. In most cases it was a way of protecting the poor (the ones who would be forced to work).

I would agree to the death of a boss that did not allow their workers to rest. Wouldn't you?

Look for the common sense in the bible.

[Justin108]

[Replying to post 13 by Justin108]

Sorry you were applying double standards and calling it confirmation bias. It was hard to take you seriously after that.

Care to demonstrate how what I said was either a double standard or a confirmation bias?

Working on the Sabbath is bad for everyone. In most cases it was a way of protecting the poor (the ones who would be forced to work).

Then the Sabbath would have read "thou shall not force thy laborers to work on the Sabbath, but if you personally wanted to work... then go ahead".

Working on the Sabbath is not bad for everyone. Sometimes people get bored on weekends and want to be productive. If working on the Sabbath was bad for everyone, why would anyone want to work on the Sabbath? The fact that the law stated that people shall not work on the Sabbath under penalty of death tells me that people wanted to and had to be dissuaded by the threat of death. Some people clearly wanted to work on the Sabbath. Clearly working on the Sabbath had its benefits.

I would agree to the death of a boss that did not allow their workers to rest. Wouldn't you?

No! A fine, maybe. Prison time, possibly. But death? Definitely not.

Are you seriously telling me you would murder your boss if he made you work on the weekend?

[Wootah]

[Replying to Justin108]

Again if you think it's death for working on weekends you might not be bringing a rational viewpoint to the debate.

[Justin108]

[Replying to Justin108]

Again if you think it's death for working on weekends you might not be bringing a rational viewpoint to the debate.

Did the Jews get sentenced to death for working on the Sabbath? Yes or no?

[JP Cusick]

Did the Jews get sentenced to death for working on the Sabbath? Yes or no?

Working on the Sabbath did carry the death sentence, but we do not know of any person who was ever executed based on that crime.

As such it is just a threat (just words) without any substance (no one executed).

In the USA we have death penalties but very few ever actually get executed, and even those few get executed without any cruel or unusual method.

The point and purpose of every law is to be a deterrent.

The idea is to prevent the crime and not to enact the punishment.

Plus we know that the people were able to get excuses for breaking the Sabbath - as like a sheep falls or being hungry or the Priest, see Matthew 12:2-13

The vision that when some person broke the Sabbath then they get killed - is not real nor accurate.

[Justin108]

Did the Jews get sentenced to death for working on the Sabbath? Yes or no?

Working on the Sabbath did carry the death sentence, but we do not know of any person who was ever executed based on that crime.

Numbers 15:32-36

32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.

35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.� 36 So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.

[JP Cusick]

Numbers 15:32-36

32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.

35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.� 36 So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.

Okay - I confess my mistake and I was wrong - so there was one execution.

Never let it be said that I do not admit when I am wrong.

So I would still bet that when the people saw this that then no one else ever broke that commandment.