Why are Atheists Here?

[liamconnor]

It seems to me that far more atheists frequent this site than theists.

It is also obviously apparent that non-theist members here are very, very passionate.

But why? What is your goal.


Are you trying to create atheists? But that goal does not fit the strategy, which is typically on the defensive: i.e., "Prove to me there is a God!"


So why are you here? You obviously want theists to be constantly trying to convince you of ideas you think ridiculous. This is very strange. I think Islam an error; yet I am not a member of a single Islamic site. Are you? I think Hinduism strange; still, not seeking a Hindu forum to demand evidence for their beliefs.

So, to reiterate:

what is your goal?

why specifically Christianity?

[Aetixintro]

[Replying to post 79 by Tired of the Nonsense]

This is just one account of the phenomena. The cases I speak of have undergone clinical "death" and then woken up. They aren't merely "shaken".

Thus, the effects of G-LOC are not what I have in mind.

Other accounts speak definitely about the soul, implying eternity and God.

Time will tell?

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 79 by Tired of the Nonsense]

This is just one account of the phenomena. The cases I speak of have undergone clinical "death" and then woken up. They aren't merely "shaken".

Thus, the effects of G-LOC are not what I have in mind.

Other accounts speak definitely about the soul, implying eternity and God.

Time will tell?

What exactly is your definition of "clinical death?"

[Aetixintro]

[Replying to post 82 by Tired of the Nonsense]

From Google:
clinical death
noun
death as judged by the medical observation of cessation of vital functions. It is typically identified with the cessation of heartbeat and respiration, though modern resuscitation methods and life-support systems have required the introduction of the alternative concept of brain death.

Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_death

Aren't there cases of people who have "woken up" at the morgue too?

[Zzyzx]

.

I'd say it's pretty empirical what concerns the Van Lommel studies, the narrative of Near-Death Experiences and Out-of-body experiences.

What the heck do NDE and OBE have to do with 'Why are Atheists here?'

Is someone trying to 'prove the supernatural (or 'god') exists' using NDE or OBE? If so, this is the wrong thread for such efforts.

I also believe that some narrative also escapes the highway of information so that "freak nature" continues to be elusive to us (commoners of information). Now? Not an empirical point? I say there are many points, but somehow the opposition keeps distorting the data...

Of course, it is a worldwide conspiracy against religions -- according to religionists and religious websites (flawless sources of un-distorted data -- right?).

[Aetixintro]

[Replying to post 84 by Zzyzx]

I try to show that Atheists are myopic and subject to the Problem of Induction who fail to see the "black swans". That the World is indeed a fantastic place.

You should know as well as I do that the NDEs and OBEs suggest a fantastic nature that in turn suggests God "somewhere up there". The NDEs and OBEs also relate to Jesus' resurrection and Jesus' travel to Heaven/God. Again, I think Atheists are failing to see!

I don't speak of conspiracies like that, no, this is more like the "corrupt minds" problem.

[Zzyzx]

.

I try to show that Atheists are myopic

Is this to say that those who do not believe in gods are 'myopic' and those who believe in gods are not 'myopic'?

and subject to the Problem of Induction who fail to see the "black swans".

Is it a virtue to believe claims and tales BEFORE evidence is available?

If so, there is oceanfront property for sale in New Mexico -- for people who believe what they are told without checking for truth and accuracy. Arizona oceanfront no longer available.

That the World is indeed a fantastic place.

Agree -- no gods required.

You should know as well as I do that the NDEs and OBEs suggest a fantastic nature

I am aware that NDEs and OBEs have nothing to do with this thread topic.

that in turn suggests God "somewhere up there".

One or more of the thousands of 'gods' imagined, proposed, worshiped, feared, loved, and fought over by humans MAY be 'somewhere up there' -- or MAY NOT.

If god worshipers had any actual, verifiable evidence that their favorite (or any) 'god' existed, they would not have to rely on conjectures based on NDE or OBE to try to make an argument.

Again, I think Atheists are failing to see!

Alternatively, Atheists may 'fail to see' what is purely imaginary construct by god worshipers and promoters -- while believers 'see' what is imaginary and what they have been told / taught / indoctrinated to 'see'.

I don't speak of conspiracies like that, no, this is more like the "corrupt minds" problem.

Exactly to WHAT 'corrupt minds' does this refer?

[Aetixintro]

.

I try to show that Atheists are myopic

Is this to say that those who do not believe in gods are 'myopic' and those who believe in gods are not 'myopic'?

and subject to the Problem of Induction who fail to see the "black swans".

Is it a virtue to believe claims and tales BEFORE evidence is available?

If so, there is oceanfront property for sale in New Mexico -- for people who believe what they are told without checking for truth and accuracy. Arizona oceanfront no longer available.

That the World is indeed a fantastic place.

Agree -- no gods required.

You should know as well as I do that the NDEs and OBEs suggest a fantastic nature

I am aware that NDEs and OBEs have nothing to do with this thread topic.

that in turn suggests God "somewhere up there".

One or more of the thousands of 'gods' imagined, proposed, worshiped, feared, loved, and fought over by humans MAY be 'somewhere up there' -- or MAY NOT.

If god worshipers had any actual, verifiable evidence that their favorite (or any) 'god' existed, they would not have to rely on conjectures based on NDE or OBE to try to make an argument.

Again, I think Atheists are failing to see!

Alternatively, Atheists may 'fail to see' what is purely imaginary construct by god worshipers and promoters -- while believers 'see' what is imaginary and what they have been told / taught / indoctrinated to 'see'.

I don't speak of conspiracies like that, no, this is more like the "corrupt minds" problem.

Exactly to WHAT 'corrupt minds' does this refer?

In short, NDEs and OBEs ARE the empirical evidence you ask for, suggesting God's existence, and they are verifiable by similarity and case by case basis. You know there's a problem in making them an experiment because it means you have to risk death in stepping over the divide between life and death, preferably by waterpool and voluntary drowning to make the soul become separated from the body. Not easy! But more openness to the NDEs and OBEs and a more systematic approach/reporting from psychiatric services of these NDEs and OBEs will make it better for all of us so that truth shines more brightly.

Corrupt minds: "Become evil like I am and drop that ethical living for God who doesn't exist for me!" Thus suggesting an agenda: Ignorance of both God and ethical living and for spreading evil and the nature of one's bad being all over the planet.

[Zzyzx]

.

In short, NDEs and OBEs ARE the empirical evidence you ask for, suggesting God's existence,

Correction: NDEs and OBEs do NOT suggest the existence of any of the 'gods' to me and many others. Perhaps if one BELIEVES in gods, they 'see' such things as 'evidence' -- when the believing comes first and 'seeing' comes afterward.

The same 'experiences' can be produced by electrical stimulation of the brain in healthy people. Some indicate that such 'experiences' can be produced by ingesting, injecting, or inhaling chemical substances.

and they are verifiable by similarity and case by case basis. You know there's a problem in making them an experiment because it means you have to risk death in stepping over the divide between life and death, preferably by waterpool and voluntary drowning to make the soul become separated from the body. Not easy! But more openness to the NDEs and OBEs and a more systematic approach/reporting from psychiatric services of these NDEs and OBEs will make it better for all of us so that truth shines more brightly.

I am willing to wait for verifiable evidence to be produced by people who actually STUDY such things -- and not jump aboard with those who SPECULATE.

I don't speak of conspiracies like that, no, this is more like the "corrupt minds" problem.

Exactly to WHAT 'corrupt minds' does this refer?

Corrupt minds: "Become evil like I am and drop that ethical living for God who doesn't exist for me!" Thus suggesting an agenda: Ignorance of both God and ethical living and for spreading evil and the nature of one's bad being all over the planet.

Is that an attempt to describe the minds (and actions) of people who do not believe in gods?

Is that to claim that those who do not worship gods are evil, unethical, bad, spreading evil?

If that is what is being attempted, kindly show READERS that it is an accurate characterization of those who do not worship gods.

Show readers that Believers are more ethical and less 'evil' than Non-Believers. Keep in mind that Christians are incarcerated at rates / percentages greater than Non-Christians; Christians have divorce rates comparable to Non-Christians; and Christians have a half-million abortions per year in the US (while condemning the practice as 'evil').

A strong case can be made that those who preach that Believers are more ethical and less 'evil' than Non-Believers (while their actions are comparable) are being hypocritical.


It is not uncommon for Believers to think (and claim) that Non-Believers are inferior ethically or behaviorally. They may have been taught that by religious 'leaders' who fear the dreaded 'Atheists' and Apostates and followers of different religions. Preachers are right to fear the influence of Non-Believers on their 'flock' (customers). When people realize that they are not inherently 'evil' and that life can be very satisfying and fulfilling WITHOUT religion, they often reject the guilt and fear (and social pressure) that keeps many in religion.

To those considering 'leaving the faith', I say 'Try it, you might like it -- and discover that you are not inherently evil -- and that you will not run amok doing evil deeds (as many have been led to believe).

[Monta]

[Replying to post 88 by Zzyzx]

"Show readers that Believers are more ethical and less 'evil' than Non-Believers. Keep in mind that Christians are incarcerated at rates / percentages greater than Non-Christians; Christians have divorce rates comparable to Non-Christians; and Christians have a half-million abortions per year in the US (while condemning the practice as 'evil'). "

That Christians are incarecerated at a greater percentage rate than non-Christians is debatable.
Being born in a so-called Christian country does not make you Christian.
Calling yoursef a Christian does not mean u are.
Same applies for divorce rates and abortions.

[Zzyzx]

.

That Christians are incarecerated at a greater percentage rate than non-Christians is debatable.

Okay, debate away

Unsurprisingly, at 0.10 percent, atheism still represents a tiny percentage of the religious identities of inmates in federal prison, though that number has risen slightly since 2013, when atheists made up 0.07 percent of the federal prison population. One might speculate that this increase is related to the increase in the percentage of the US population in general that identifies as atheist. According to the Pew Research Center’s Religious Landscape Survey, the percentage of people in the United States who identify as atheists has jumped from 1.6 percent in 2012 to 3.1 percent in 2014. However, Mehta points out that the percentage of atheists in prison is significantly lower than the percentage of atheists in the general population.
https://thehumanist.com/commentary/nonb ... us-inmates

Being born in a so-called Christian country does not make you Christian.

Agreed. Has someone here suggested that?

Calling yoursef a Christian does not mean u are.

Okay -- EXACTLY what does mean one is a Christian?

How is that decided? By whom? Using what criteria? By what authority?

If a person states that they are a Christian, WHO is entitled to say they are not?

Same applies for divorce rates and abortions.

When presented with embarrassing information, many who identify themselves as Christians deny that miscreants are Christians -- personally and informally 'excommunicating' any who meet with their disapproval (but still include them when counting noses to bolster popularity statistics).