The Fate of Nonbelievers

[myth-one.com]

Christians believe the Bible to be inspired by God. If so, true Christian theology will be found in the Bible. Likewise, theology which cannot be found in the Bible is not true Christian theology. Participants in this topic will debate the eternal fate of nonbelievers -- as written in the Bible! Nonbelievers will be defined as anyone who does not believe in Jesus -- regardless of their age, intelligence, or any other factor! One's input is valuable only if supported by the Bible. Whether or not one actually believes the Bible to be true is inconsequential! No preference will be given based on religious beliefs, faith, denominations, etc. We will attempt to jointly and finally agree as to what the Bible states believers will be saved from! It will be a learning experience, with no preaching or attempts at "saving" anyone. Hopefully we can save human lives and reduce irrational fears! I encourage all to participate!

As a starting point. This is what I claim the Holy Bible states as to the fate of nonbelievers: (Click on any item below for a full biblical defense of that claim.)

2. The Bible defines two body types, natural and spiritual. God and the angels are spiritual bodied beings, while all other beings are physical. The main difference between the two types is longevity. Spiritual bodies are immortal, while natural bodies will perish. Also, pain is necessary for natural bodies to recognize when they're in harm's way. Spirits are indestructible, and thus need no pain.
3. Two separate and distinct physical deaths may befall mankind, but only the first death is a certainty. Every human will die the first death.
4. And every human who suffers their first death will be resurrected. Those whose names are written in the Book of Life will be resurrected to everlasting life.
5. But there will be an order to the resurrections. Christ was resurrected first. All dead believers will be resurrected at the second Coming of Christ, and all nonbelievers will be resurrected a thousand years after the Second Coming.
6. All Christians living at the time of the Second Coming will be changed into spiritual beings and meet Christ in the air.
7. At this time, there will be no living human Christians. All will have been born again of the Spirit as spiritual children of God. They will then spend the thousand year Millennium with Christ.
8. Following the Millennium, all dead nonbelievers will be resurrected as humans and face judgment. Following their judgment, those whose names are not written in the Book of Life are cast into the lake of fire and instantly perish -- being human. This is their second and everlasting death. They have opted out of life for all eternity.
9. But their names were not written into the Book of Life prior to their judgment! Everyone with their names written in the Book of Life were born again into the spiritual Kingdom of God at the Second Coming. The Book of Life was cleared at that time. So why check it again?
10. The only possible reason is that nonbelievers will have the opportunity to accept salvation during the judgment process! The blank Book of Life is reopened at the beginning of judgment so that names may be written into it. The names written into it will be names of nonbeliever who repent and accept Jesus as their Savior during their judgment.

Initial Conclusion: The everlasting fate of nonbelievers is eternal death. They will die -- never to live again.

Consequences: No humans will suffer eternally in the lake of fire. Distraught parents who murder their children in their innocent years in an effort to send them to heaven as they have been taught -- have been deceived! Likewise, the millions of deceived Christians who constantly worry about their unsaved family and loved ones being eternally tortured in the fires of hell can now chill out.

Click here to view the current "Fate of Nonbelievers" and supporting biblical evidence as resolved by debaters under this thread.

I will modify attachments linked to from this post as we debate the issue and find corrections or improvements! Hopefully, we will be led to a good result!

[JP Cusick]

I believe that John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. sways the argument, no?

It separates believers who are not condemned from some who are already condemned because they do not believe...that is, not condemned and condemned cannot be the same thing but must have different effects and values, or this verse is nonsense!

That text applies to here-n-now in this lifetime.

We can see people who do not believe as they keep making foolish mistakes based on foolish sins, and yes they reap as they sow - they all condemn their selves already, see Galatians 6:7-8

I am all for believing in this life, but we know that when Jesus preached the truth then the people hung Him on a cross, and they would do the same to any of us.

And to get real then it really takes more than just belief, because it takes long term conviction and active effort, so belief is just the doorway into so much more, because even the Demons believe and they tremble, see James 2:18-20, so belief is not enough.

And just in case we are still confused, Jesus told us in Matt 13:37 He replied, The One who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed represents the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. that all mankind separated into two groups, the people of the kingdom and the people of the evil one, BEFORE they are born/sowed into this world...(not created since the devil cannot create).

Mr. Cusick, how do you handle Matt 13:26-39, please?

That is fine as I like that parable.

The parable is saying that God sends into this world " the good seed represents the people of the kingdom ", so most of humanity does not get saved in this lifetime, but only after death at the Judgment Day they do get saved.

Verse Matthew 13:40 & 42 " As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. "

The correct doctrine from the Bible is that the "Lake of fire" is a place of cleaning and purification.

No one goes to any place of torment, and the real torment is here and now in this evil lifetime.

See here:
" If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. " 1 Corinthians 3:15

The sins are burned while the sinners get saved, as done by fire.

As such every person gets saved and not even one (1) gets left out or lost.

As to the second death - the Apostle Paul declares that to be death to sin, see "dead to sin" Romans 6:2-11

Some few people die to sin in this lifetime (people of the kingdom), while most people have the second death (death to sin) later at the time of Judgment.

It is a great plan of eternal salvation for all.

[myth-one.com]

#1 All faithful Christians during the millenium will live on the earth but transformed into spirit form.

#2 Jesus will rule over millions nonbelievers (I presume former "nonbelievers").

#3 "The good earth" is refering to this our literal planet earth.

#4 Believers will spend eternity on the earth with Jesus for ever and ever.

#5 It is a deception to think that believers will spend eternity in heaven where God lives.



Is the above correct now? Are there any errors? If so can you correct them?

#1 All Christians during the millenium will live on the earth after being born again as spiritual beings at the Second Coming.

#2 Jesus will rule over the earth.

#3 "The good earth" is refering to this our literal planet earth.

#4 Believers will spend eternity on the earth with Jesus for ever and ever.

#5 It is a deception to think that believers will spend eternity in heaven where God lives.

A QUESTION:
What will happen to the former non-believers after they are judged as righteous and rewarded with everlasting life? Will they too be changed into spirits to continue for all eternity on the earth (with Jesus) or will they remain in human physical bodies?

Deceased nonbelievers will be resurrected as humans after the millennium. Then all nonbelievers who accept Jesus as their Savior during judgment will have their names written in the Book of Life, be born again as spirits into the spiritual Kingdom of God, and reign over the world with Jesus for ever and ever.

[myth-one.com]

But at the Judgment Day then (then) everyone will believe, and everyone gets saved.

How can you say that?

[JP Cusick]

But at the Judgment Day then (then) everyone will believe, and everyone gets saved.

How can you say that?

I quote you from your above comment #51

"Deceased nonbelievers will be resurrected as humans after the millennium. Then all nonbelievers who accept Jesus as their Savior during judgment will have their names written in the Book of Life, be born again as spirits into the spiritual Kingdom of God, and reign over the world with Jesus for ever and ever."

They do not have to accept anything - they just need to believe. John 3:16-17

And after being resurrected then even a demented lunatic will believe.

Obviously you already know that after the resurrection that people are given a second chance and that is because everyone gets saved.

It is God's will that all would come to repentance, 2 Peter 3:9

And God's will - will be done - on earth as it is in Heaven.

[JehovahsWitness]

#2 Jesus will rule over the earth.

Is the following statement that you made true?

The earth is not empty -- human life goes on during the Millennium. But all are nonbelievers.

If the above is true would it not be true to say ...

#2 Jesus will rule over the earth inhabited by human (former) non-believers


If there is a problem with the above statement in red could you tell me what it is?

[JehovahsWitness]

The earth is not empty -- human life goes on during the Millennium. But all are nonbelievers.

Deceased nonbelievers will be resurrected as humans after the millennium.

So

# During the millennimum, the human lives of non-believers goes on.

# Non-believers that have died previous to the millenium will be ressurected as humans after the millenium

QUESTION:

Do the humans that are living on earth during the millenium grow old and die or do they live on uninterupted for 1000 years?

Again please correct any misunderstandings.

[JehovahsWitness]

#1 All Christians during the millenium will live on the earth after being born again as spiritual beings at the Second Coming.

all nonbelievers [who accept Jesus] will.. be born again as spirits ... and reign over the world with Jesus for ever and ever.

Who is left to be reigned over? ie who are the subjects of this reign and are these subjects human?

[myth-one.com]

But at the Judgment Day then (then) everyone will believe, and everyone gets saved.

How can you say that?

I quote you from your above comment #51

"Deceased nonbelievers will be resurrected as humans after the millennium. Then all nonbelievers who accept Jesus as their Savior during judgment will have their names written in the Book of Life, be born again as spirits into the spiritual Kingdom of God, and reign over the world with Jesus for ever and ever."

They do not have to accept anything - they just need to believe. John 3:16-17

And after being resurrected then even a demented lunatic will believe.

Obviously you already know that after the resurrection that people are given a second chance and that is because everyone gets saved.

It is God's will that all would come to repentance, 2 Peter 3:9

And God's will - will be done - on earth as it is in Heaven.

Believe: to accept something as true.

Jesus offers Himself to mankind as our Savior.

Those who accept Him as such will be saved.

I agree that when one is actually witnessing the judgment process, even "demented lunatics" should believe that it is really occurring and that they can accept Jesus and live forever as a spirit, or choose an everlasting quick physical death and opt out of everlasting life.

And the obvious choice for you and I would be everlasting life.

However, it is something which must be considered with some thought -- even when the true details are explained in full at judgment.

The reason I say that is due to what the maximum punishment for sin becomes when one gains everlasting life.

The maximum imprisonment sentence for human criminal punishment is life in prison. Almost always less that 100 years.

The maximum imprisonment sentence for spiritual beings is everlasting confinement.

This is the future fate of the devil:

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

This cannot be physical torment as the devil's spiritual body does not feel pain. It is the torment of knowing he failed, being defeated, seeing lowly humans being upgraded to take his place, never being given another opportunity, separation from everything for eternity. Total boredom. He has rebelled, been defeated, and lost his freedom and authority for eternity.

Some humans may not want to take the risk of that happening to them.

This could possibly happen to extremely successful competitive humans. Look at who the Bible states will have difficulty entering the Kingdom of God:

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. (Matthew 19:23-24)

Suppose that after just a short trillion years of spiritual life, a member of the Kingdom of God gets bored with their position, becomes envious of God, and plots a rebellion against God.

If the rebellion fails (as it should), the leader of the revolt could get a life in prison punishment as did Satan.

In that situation, one might be best served by getting out of life while one can -- as a human. The only way out if that person was a believer would be to reject salvation.

Can a believer choose to reject everlasting life?

If not, then salvation is forced on everyone.

[myth-one.com]

#2 Jesus will rule over the earth.

Is the following statement that you made true?

The earth is not empty -- human life goes on during the Millennium. But all are nonbelievers.

If the above is true would it not be true to say ...

#2 Jesus will rule over the earth inhabited by human (former) non-believers


If there is a problem with the above statement in red could you tell me what it is?

Do not be offended, but I do not even understand your "statement #2":

#2 Jesus will rule over the earth inhabited by human (former) non-believers

What does the word "former" apply to?

The human non-believers remain as humans and non-believers.

The only human population on the earth is nonbelievers during the millennium.

Humans who were Christians on the earth at the Second Coming have been born again as spiritual beings and are taking part in the millennium with Jesus.

They are no longer humans.

====================================================

Satan rules over the world presently.

But during the millennium, Satan will locked away or restrained.

Satan will be released and defeated after the millennium. After that defeat is probably when the earth officially rejoins the Kingdom of Heaven with Jesus as the official earthly ruler.

During the millennium, I suppose Jesus rules over the earth, or the humans (all non-believers) rule themselves.

Who cares?

[myth-one.com]

QUESTION:

Do the humans that are living on earth during the millenium grow old and die or do they live on uninterupted for 1000 years?

Again please correct any misunderstandings.

Human life and death continues as it is now. Multiple generations will live and die during that period.