Questions about the Earth

[servant]

Did science or the bible first note that the earth hangs on nothing?

Did science or the bible first note that the earth was a circle and not flat?

[Trump]

Well, going strictly by observation, the Earth is definitely flat.

I'm not sure which Earth you are looking at, the one I see is not flat. Are you from Saskatchewan by any chance Even if you are, you should be able to get your telescope out and wave to the people you see in China if it was flat.

Your kidding, right? Have you heard of perspective, visibility, refraction and such?

I cannot see China, but I do see with my 10" Celestron ships disappear into the horizon as the angle of our perception gets smaller and smaller with distance. What I don't see is the 8" drop per mile squared curvature.

[benchwarmer]

Well, going strictly by observation, the Earth is definitely flat.

I'm not sure which Earth you are looking at, the one I see is not flat. Are you from Saskatchewan by any chance Even if you are, you should be able to get your telescope out and wave to the people you see in China if it was flat.

Your kidding, right? Have you heard of perspective, visibility, refraction and such?

Well golly I guess the earth is flat after all. Silly me. Refuted by refraction.

I cannot see China, but I do see with my 10" Celestron ships disappear into the horizon as the angle of our perception gets smaller and smaller with distance. What I don't see is the 8" drop per mile squared curvature.

Is that you Shnarkle? Sorry, this argument sounds straight out of another posters play book. You enjoy your flat earth, I'll enjoy not falling off the edge of my spherical one.

[Trump]

Well, going strictly by observation, the Earth is definitely flat.

I'm not sure which Earth you are looking at, the one I see is not flat. Are you from Saskatchewan by any chance Even if you are, you should be able to get your telescope out and wave to the people you see in China if it was flat.

Your kidding, right? Have you heard of perspective, visibility, refraction and such?

Well golly I guess the earth is flat after all. Silly me. Refuted by refraction.

Just one of many.

I cannot see China, but I do see with my 10" Celestron ships disappear into the horizon as the angle of our perception gets smaller and smaller with distance. What I don't see is the 8" drop per mile squared curvature.

Is that you Shnarkle? Sorry, this argument sounds straight out of another posters play book. You enjoy your flat earth, I'll enjoy not falling off the edge of my spherical one.

So we have Flat Earthers here? How do I find them? Are we even allowed to talk about the F.E. reality on this Forum?
You cannot get to the edge, well maybe you can, do you worship Shiva?

[alexxcJRO]

Well, going strictly by observation, the Earth is definitely flat.

It hangs on nothing, because it is created by the Creator. Like, what does Star Trek Earth hang on, or any of the other science fiction planets hang on? They hang on the imagination of their creators.

The Bible will never contradict scientific observation, maybe confuse it with a miracle or two, but isn't every creation in the hands of its creators? If you watch any science fiction movies, you know it is.

Wait what,... the earth is flat ?!!!:-s
You got to be kidding me...

The Earth is definitely not flat.

1. Here some pics and video of the Earth which clearly show the earth is not flat:


https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html



2. NASA launched the space shuttle 130 times, not counting test flights. They made a combined total of over 21,000 orbits of the Earth. The flights typically lasted 7 days or more, with several lasting more than 14 days. Over the years hundreds of thousands of people saw, in person, launches of Columbia, Challenger, Discover, Atlantis and Endeavor.

3. With only a cheap telescope, or even a camera with a decent telephoto lens, you can SEE the ISS orbiting above us.
The ISS is particularly interesting as it would be impossible to fake on a "flat earth". It's appearance at any location is precisely predictable, but only if it's orbiting a globe shaped Earth at a certain speed, and at a certain altitude.
You can find out when it's going to be visible by subscribing the NASA "Spot the Station" site, which can email you whenever there's going to be a good flyover, or just give you a list of all upcoming times when it will be visible
https://spotthestation.nasa.gov/sightings/index.cfm
It can be easily photographed at a sensible time every few weeks.
You can see a collection of much better photos taken from the ground by Mike Tyrell, here:
http://www.astrospider.com/


4. Go and look in real time at any Foucault pendulum. They are exhibited at many museums around the world.

That pendulum it is conclusive proof that the Earth is rotating; if the earth were not rotating, the Pendulum wouldn’t precess, it would just swing through the same arc over and over, never tracing out any different path than the one it started on.

[Bust Nak]

So we have Flat Earthers here?

Well, Shnarkle wasn't bold enough to say the Earth is flat, merely insisted that it hasn't been demonstrate that it is a globe.

How do I find them?

Haven't see him for a while, you can see how our conversation went here.

Are we even allowed to talk about the F.E. reality on this Forum?

Yes, just bear in mind that you are expected to debate your points.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 1 by servant]

Greek science predates the Bible, despite Christianity's nearly successful attempts to destroy it. The first unofficial Bible may have been written as early as 160BC.

But science theorized it was round since the the 6th century BC, and Egypt designed structures intuitively, sans theory.

Spherical Earth

So even under the best circumstances, the Bible just did what it did with other cultures fables - it copied from them, and "science."

[Trump]

So we have Flat Earthers here?

Well, Shnarkle wasn't bold enough to say the Earth is flat, merely insisted that it hasn't been demonstrate that it is a globe.

Shnarkle, got it, I will look for him, thanks.
Just insisted, on a Christian Forum? You'd think Christians would welcome important evidence based on Biblical truth?

How do I find them?

Haven't see him for a while, you can see how our conversation went here.

Thanks again, I will check it out.

Are we even allowed to talk about the F.E. reality on this Forum?

Yes, just bear in mind that you are expected to debate your points.

[/quote]

Of course, in like manner: The pursuit of knowledge and truth, nothing but the truth through God, through science, through civil and engaging debate

[Trump]

Well, going strictly by observation, the Earth is definitely flat.

It hangs on nothing, because it is created by the Creator. Like, what does Star Trek Earth hang on, or any of the other science fiction planets hang on? They hang on the imagination of their creators.

The Bible will never contradict scientific observation, maybe confuse it with a miracle or two, but isn't every creation in the hands of its creators? If you watch any science fiction movies, you know it is.

Wait what,... the earth is flat ?!!!:-s
You got to be kidding me...

That's exactly the response I gave when I first heard about it, until he shown me what to look for. Hope we can come to the same conclusion, this seems like an intelligent Forum!

The Earth is definitely not flat.

1. Here some pics and video of the Earth which clearly show the earth is not flat:

If I shown you a bunch of square CGI images of earth, would you believe it?

https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html

Yes, but for the fraction of the cost NASA takes in a week, I could produce much better CGI images and videos.

Nice starlit void/space, .. only I thought you cannot see stars from space?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmcwW-8CC6E

2. NASA launched the space shuttle 130 times, not counting test flights. They made a combined total of over 21,000 orbits of the Earth. The flights typically lasted 7 days or more, with several lasting more than 14 days.

So says NASA with the tongue of a snake over the S on their emblem.
https://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstuden ... -nasa.html

Why should we trust what they say? Oh yeas, because they are NASA.

Over the years hundreds of thousands of people saw, in person, launches of Columbia, Challenger, Discover, Atlantis and Endeavor.

Sure they did
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUK0i8kEMtU

I know people who built parts for them too, doesn't mean anything. That is not proof.

3. With only a cheap telescope, or even a camera with a decent telephoto lens, you can SEE the ISS orbiting above us.

Yes, and sometimes, our local TV station will tell us that "today, because the position is just right, you could see the ISS with the naked eye." Think about this for a second, do you think you could see something just bigger than a school bus at 250 miles away?
I have a 10" Celestron telescope, took it up to the Grand Canyons and was barely able to see the Rafters going down the Colorado, and that was like 1.5 miles down max.

The ISS is particularly interesting as it would be impossible to fake on a "flat earth". It's appearance at any location is precisely predictable, but only if it's orbiting a globe shaped Earth at a certain speed, and at a certain altitude.
You can find out when it's going to be visible by subscribing the NASA "Spot the Station" site, which can email you whenever there's going to be a good flyover, or just give you a list of all upcoming times when it will be visible
https://spotthestation.nasa.gov/sightings/index.cfm
It can be easily photographed at a sensible time every few weeks.
You can see a collection of much better photos taken from the ground by Mike Tyrell, here:
http://www.astrospider.com/

Yes, NASA will tell you when they will launch those weather balloons with either a fake, or maybe even a real tin foil ISS dangling from it.



Notice how the structure is moving around as if dangling on a wire, also the stars are visible especially with the bright Earth right in front.

4. Go and look in real time at any Foucault pendulum. They are exhibited at many museums around the world.

That pendulum it is conclusive proof that the Earth is rotating; if the earth were not rotating, the Pendulum wouldn’t precess, it would just swing through the same arc over and over, never tracing out any different path than the one it started on.

Just one of many:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4SkcMK94yw

[alexxcJRO]

If I shown you a bunch of square CGI images of earth, would you believe it?

Yes, but for the fraction of the cost NASA takes in a week, I could produce much better CGI images and videos.
So says NASA with the tongue of a snake over the S on their emblem.
Why should we trust what they say? Oh yeas, because they are NASA.
I know people who built parts for them too, doesn't mean anything. That is not proof.

Q: Paranoid enough?!!!!
Q: Why should i trust your paranoid ramblings and baseless assertions, huh?:-k

Here a list of all the government agencies engaged in activities related to outer space and space exploration:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_g ... e_agencies

“As of 2017, 71 different government space agencies are in existence; 13 of those have launch capability. Six government space agencies - the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), the European Space Agency (ESA), the China National Space Administration (CNSA), the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA), the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) and the Russian Federal Space Agency (RFSA or Roscosmos) have full launch capabilities; these include the ability to launch and recover multiple satellites, deploy cryogenic rocket engines and operate extraterrestrial probes. Only three currently operating government space agencies in the world - RFSA and the CNSA and NASA are capable of human spaceflight as of 2017.�

Here a list of private spaceflight companies, non-governmental entities that currently offer – or are planning to offer – equipment and services geared towards spaceflight, both robotic and human:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... _companies

So 71 governments and countless private companies are in on the conspiracy spending hundreds of billions of dollars.

Let’s not forget the myriad of amateur and professional astronomers.

Keeping such conspiracy under wraps seems beyond the realms of feasibility, possibility.

Q: Why the conspiracy? Why would 71 governments and countless private companies do this?
Q: Where do the shuttles go after launch?
Q: How do you know the pictures and videos are CGI?

Please provide some conclusive evidence to support your positive claims.

Nice starlit void/space, .. only I thought you cannot see stars from space?

Nonsense. )
You can. The reason you don't see stars in a lot of photographs in space has to do with exposure time. Stars aren't visible in a lot of space photos because starlight is much dimmer than the sunlight and other objects in the photos. If you had a camera capable of taking photos with long exposure times (such as the Hubble space telescope; or your own eyes), you would see stars in space.
All of the Apollo missions took place during the moon’s day, so the sun was always in the moon’s sky, the sun being just as bright as it is on earth, where, as you know, you cannot see the stars during daytime.

Yes, and sometimes, our local TV station will tell us that "today, because the position is just right, you could see the ISS with the naked eye." Think about this for a second, do you think you could see something just bigger than a school bus at 250 miles away?

When looking with the naked eye it looks like a point of light.
You need very powerful magnification to make out any detail.
Contrast is more important than size. The ISS is most visible when it's still lit by the sun but the sky isn't, and because it has a large and highly reflective surface area it's in a very high contrast visual field and thus visible. During the day, you'll never see it without some good optical device.

Observations:
1. The ISS is a bright object, with a magnitude as high as -5, and regularly greater than -3 on favorable passes. That is considerably brighter than any star in the sky, and on a par with the brightest planet (Venus).
2. The ISS measures 357 feet end-to-end. That’s equivalent to the length of a football field including the end zones (well, almost – a football field is 360 feet).

Also you can calculate the distance between ISS and surface of the Earth.
Here Mick West does this using trigonometry(post 6 of the thread provided by the link bellow):

https://www.metabunk.org/triangulating- ... iss.t7994/

You can do this experiment and calculations yourself together with someone else.

Yes, NASA will tell you when they will launch those weather balloons with either a fake, or maybe even a real tin foil ISS dangling from it.

It cannot be a balloon or a plane because it is moving too fast to be a balloon or a plane.
The record for planes is 3,529.6 km/h(Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird) while the ISS is moving at a speed of 28 800 km/h(it only takes 90 minutes for the weightless laboratory to make a complete circuit of Earth.)
http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Human ... ce_Station
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird

You can do this yourself. Make a video of the pass. Wait 90 minutes to see it return for a second pass.

Just one of many:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4SkcMK94yw

Can you put in your words what the video is meant to convey and how it is related to my argument concerning the pendulum.

[Trump]

If I shown you a bunch of square CGI images of earth, would you believe it?

Yes, but for the fraction of the cost NASA takes in a week, I could produce much better CGI images and videos.
So says NASA with the tongue of a snake over the S on their emblem.
Why should we trust what they say? Oh yeas, because they are NASA.
I know people who built parts for them too, doesn't mean anything. That is not proof.

Q: Paranoid enough?!!!!
Q: Why should i trust your paranoid ramblings and baseless assertions, huh?:-k

Paranoia? I thought no personal attacks on this Forum, and you start your post with one? Besides, where do you see paranoia in the out of context list you provided from my post above?

Here a list of all the government agencies engaged in activities related to outer space and space exploration:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_g ... e_agencies

“As of 2017, 71 different government space agencies are in existence; 13 of those have launch capability. Six government space agencies - the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), the European Space Agency (ESA), the China National Space Administration (CNSA), the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA), the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) and the Russian Federal Space Agency (RFSA or Roscosmos) have full launch capabilities; these include the ability to launch and recover multiple satellites, deploy cryogenic rocket engines and operate extraterrestrial probes. Only three currently operating government space agencies in the world - RFSA and the CNSA and NASA are capable of human spaceflight as of 2017.�

Here a list of private spaceflight companies, non-governmental entities that currently offer – or are planning to offer – equipment and services geared towards spaceflight, both robotic and human:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... _companies

Here is a list of production companies making movies which include space, planets, aliens and so on. So what?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_f ... _companies

also, every school whether theist/atheist provides a globe-earth in their science classrooms, I doubt I could provide one school that doesn't, .. does that prove the earth is a sphere?
Besides Neil Degrassee said the earth is really pear shaped, now how could all those space agencies you listed missed that? Show me ONE pic of earth as pear-shaped?

So 71 governments and countless private companies are in on the conspiracy spending hundreds of billions of dollars.

Not spending, raking in billions of dollars. I doubt any of those artist renderings of planets cost more than $30 - $40 each.

Let’s not forget the myriad of amateur and professional astronomers.

.. gazing into the heaven at stars, and seeing this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdNFo5eWf9g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNHU5KOI9lQ&t=763s

Keeping such conspiracy under wraps seems beyond the realms of feasibility, possibility.

2.2 billion Catholics believe that a wooden carved statue they call Mary speaks to them, and sometimes cries blood, and all these nice educated people pray to it in hopes it will relay their requests to some sun-god which I guess is her son. Barely beyond the realms of feasibility.

President Kennedy was shot in the head, and all the thousands of evidence collected at the time was hidden from the voting public for 50 years, how is that possible if you say; Keeping such conspiracy under wraps seems beyond the realms of feasibility?

The first mass conspiracy against humanity was done 6,000 years ago in the Garden of Eden. Nothing is beyond the realm of feasibility. Most people just don't care, so by the time we catch it, it's too late, it's in all the books, movies, TV, it is all we knew until like myself, I took another look.

Q: Why the conspiracy? Why would 71 governments and countless private companies do this?

As always, it's about money and power.

Q: Where do the shuttles go after launch?

For a ride.

Q: How do you know the pictures and videos are CGI?

Most are paintings, artists rendering, just read the small print.

Please provide some conclusive evidence to support your positive claims.

You mean like the evidence for gravity? What I say is obvious as the nose on our faces.

Nice starlit void/space, .. only I thought you cannot see stars from space?

Nonsense. )
You can. The reason you don't see stars in a lot of photographs in space has to do with exposure time. Stars aren't visible in a lot of space photos because starlight is much dimmer than the sunlight and other objects in the photos. If you had a camera capable of taking photos with long exposure times (such as the Hubble space telescope; or your own eyes), you would see stars in space.
All of the Apollo missions took place during the moon’s day, so the sun was always in the moon’s sky, the sun being just as bright as it is on earth, where, as you know, you cannot see the stars during daytime.

I specifically shown you NASA supposed satellite photos of earth, and it clearly shows stars behind it. Please don't use pre-school to 2nd grade indoctrination on me, I am well beyond that now, thank God.

Yes, and sometimes, our local TV station will tell us that "today, because the position is just right, you could see the ISS with the naked eye." Think about this for a second, do you think you could see something just bigger than a school bus at 250 miles away?

When looking with the naked eye it looks like a point of light.
You need very powerful magnification to make out any detail.
Contrast is more important than size. The ISS is most visible when it's still lit by the sun but the sky isn't, and because it has a large and highly reflective surface area it's in a very high contrast visual field and thus visible. During the day, you'll never see it without some good optical device.

Observations:
1. The ISS is a bright object, with a magnitude as high as -5, and regularly greater than -3 on favorable passes. That is considerably brighter than any star in the sky, and on a par with the brightest planet (Venus).
2. The ISS measures 357 feet end-to-end. That’s equivalent to the length of a football field including the end zones (well, almost – a football field is 360 feet).

Yes, thank you for instructing me on what I should be seeing.

I was talking about the actual weather-balloon ISS. Yes, we can enlarge the size by mathematics claiming it is much farther away. NASA employs some really good mathematicians to figure out what the aluminum foil ISS should look like to match the imaginary distance.

Also you can calculate the distance between ISS and surface of the Earth.
Here Mick West does this using trigonometry(post 6 of the thread provided by the link bellow):

https://www.metabunk.org/triangulating- ... iss.t7994/

You can do this experiment and calculations yourself together with someone else.

There is math behind these illusions too you know!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IWk5NkxQF8

We can justify any illusion with math. Look how much math went into the Big-Bang story, they even invented quantum mechanics so engineers, scientists wouldn't confuse it with reality and try to build a bridge using science fiction math like quantum mechanics, and the use of relativity.

Yes, NASA will tell you when they will launch those weather balloons with either a fake, or maybe even a real tin foil ISS dangling from it.

It cannot be a balloon or a plane because it is moving too fast to be a balloon or a plane.
The record for planes is 3,529.6 km/h(Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird) while the ISS is moving at a speed of 28 800 km/h(it only takes 90 minutes for the weightless laboratory to make a complete circuit of Earth.)

and you've seen this when?
Stand at the side of a freeway and I tell you those cars passing you by at 60mph are actually a mile away, now tell me what the speed of a car would be at my suggested distance?

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Human ... ce_Station
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird

You can do this yourself. Make a video of the pass. Wait 90 minutes to see it return for a second pass.

Yes, the timing of the balloon launches with the many aluminum-foil ISS are critical, but I rather watch NASA Astronauts do back flips, and squirting water all over the place in the ISS as proof they are in space. It's much, much more entertaining, and get some good laughs out of it too. Especially with that one Astro-NOT lady with the crazy perm, .. just love it.

Just one of many:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4SkcMK94yw

Can you put in your words what the video is meant to convey and how it is related to my argument concerning the pendulum.

I see, you want to debate the Pendulum that it proves the earth is moving. Have they considered tectonic-plate movements? How are us animals to evolve if we are not surfing on the water?

How about live feeds that we can all access of two pendulums, one by the equator traveling 1,000mph with the rotation of your globe, and the other at the North pole where the Earth spins 1mph.

Besides, how do they know what the Foucault pendulum supposed to do when stationary if the earth is always spinning?
People have done 24 hour gyroscope experiments close to the equator where the earth supposedly spins at 1,000mph and shown absolutely no movement.

Remember, even 500 years ago they put a globe in every science classroom, so there is no expense spared, including this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5JTb_7qv78&t=21s

There is absolutely no evidence of either curvature, us spinning and twirling through the vacuum of space, (which would make the pendulum do all kinds of crazy things ) all proof is against the sun being 92.96 million miles away, and so on. You are defending your belief, while I'm talking about what I have observed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5i_iDyUTCg&t=72s