What purpose would a system of government have in heaven?

[Justin108]

What purpose would a system of government have when God is both omnipotent and omniscient? Why would an omnipotent God need to delegate in order to effectively rule? Can you perhaps give a few examples of what these rulers would be tasked to do? What purpose would rulers have in a paradise society? There is no economy to take care of, no resource distribution, no justice system as all members at this point will be free of sin... what is left for the rulers to do?

[Benoni]

[Replying to post 50 by JehovahsWitness]

No doubt about that. But my point is God's elect have a far more important ministry than just playing harps. Billions of people God has never called will be called in the ages to come and God's elect will be used in this process of redemption of the loss spirits/dead people never called.

All in Adam die. All in Christ will be made alive.

"Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved by water." (I Pet.3:18-20). Obviously, since those disobedient spirits were from the days of Noah,

[Benoni]

I like this verse .

saviorS (plural)
mount Zion (The High Spiritual place of ruler-ship)
Judge the Flesh


Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion (the high places of Ruleship in the kingdom) to judge the mount of Esau (Flesh); and the kingdom shall be the LORD's

There is more: This has to do with the ages to come. No doom and gloom, real good news. All will know Him....

Acts 15: 13-18 (ESV) 16(A) "'After this I will return,and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen (MT Zion again) ;I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it 17 that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things 18 known from of old.'


Acts 15: 13-18 (Message) James broke the silence. "Friends, listen. Simeon has told us the story of how God at the very outset made sure that racial outsiders were included. This is in perfect agreement with the words of the prophets: After this, I'm coming back; I'll rebuild David's ruined house; I'll put all the pieces together again; I'll make it look like new So outsiders who seek will find, so they'll have a place to come to, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing. "God said it and now he's doing it. It's no afterthought; he's always known he would do this

Acts 15: (Amp) 17So that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name has been invoked,

Acts 15: (HCSB) 17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord" even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things,

Acts 15: 17 (NIRV) Then the rest of the people can look to the Lord. This means all the non-Jews who belong to me. The Lord says this. He is the one who does these things.' "(Amos 9:11,12)

Now if the rest of men may seek the Lord, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing , all the Gentiles , the remainder of man kind are destroyed as you proclaim in the Lake of Devine Purging (Lake of Fire); then what about this promise.

[JehovahsWitness]

I never said we should remove the act of eating, merely the need to eat. Eating should be like dancing; something you do for fun but not something you need to do.

I acknowledge that is how you feel, and I am not minimizing your feelings, but I am simply presenting what the bible says on the matter. Biblically speaking there is nothing wrong with the fact that human bodies need food, it is an expression of God's love that he has made something that is necessary ALSO pleasurable.

From a biblical stand point (the BIBLE) there is nothing at all wrong with needing to eat.

PSALMS 104: 14,15
He[Jehovah] [causes the grass to grow for the cattle, And vegetation for the labor of man, So that he may bring forth food from the earth, And wine which makes man's heart glad, So that he may make his face glisten with oil, And food which sustains man's heart.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 25 by Justin108]

Why would removing the need for food be an improvement? Isn't eating a pleasurable experience? What are your favorite foods? Do you enjoy them? Why would you not want to have them to enjoy?

.

I never said we should remove the act of eating, merely the need to eat. Eating should be like dancing; something you do for fun but not something you need to do.

So you are saying that humans shouldn't need to do anything. Right? I don't understand why that is something that is so critical to you. You apparently think that we should not need to sleep, but stay awake 24/7; or need to keep from jumping off a high cliff, but be able to jump or fall anywhere and not get hurt; or need to brush our teeth, but should have perfectly clean teeth automatically. I could go on. That doesn't make any sense.

[onewithhim]

What purpose would a system of government have when God is both omnipotent and omniscient?

The purpose of the government, as with all governments, is to establish and enforce an administeration to maintain order in a new world system. While God is both omnipotent and omnicient by nature, this doesn't stop him choosing to delegate if that be his pleasure.

So you can't give me an actual rational reason other than "because God wants to"? In case this was not obvious from my OP, I want to know why God would want to?

JW just told you why.

.

Yes and his why comes down to "because God wants to". God can effectively rule without assigning tasks to 144 000 people. So why do it? JW's answer comes down to "because God wants to" and something to the effect of making the 144 000 feel special.

So tell me what's wrong with that.

[RightReason]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness]

QUESTION: Will contraceptives be available while living in paradise?

These kinds of questions are not answered directly in scripture.

And yet we can know based on what we do know from Scripture the answer to that question. And the answer is obvious and something all Christian religions believed and taught prior to the 1930s. And that is that the use of contraception is a sin. Googel it. Maybe JWs didnt get the memo seeing how they came on the scene so late. What changed in the 1930's to suddenly cause Christian religions to change her beliefs and teachings regarding contraception? Was this the age of enlightenment? The sin of Onan in Scripture is about contraception. God struck him because he engaged in contraception (the withdrawal method), so no Scripture is not silent on this issue. If Onan was simply guilty of disobedience or having sex with his brother's wife, he would not have killed -- the sin for those things was not death. Go to Scripture and meditate on that passage -- God was unhappy that Onan thwarted His gift of the sexual act.

Contra-ception means against life. How could the creator of life be against life? He isnt. The human body is currently designed to be fertile. The sexual act has both a pleasurable and procreative nature. This unitive nature is designed by God. Man is thwarting Gods design if he does something to block/stop the natural consequences of the sexual act. Not unlike the bulimic who wants the pleasure of eating food, but does not want the natural consequences that occur as a result of eating (calories) and so vomits up the food. Clearly disordered behavior. A couple that uses artificial contraception is essentially saying they want the pleasure of sex without allowing for its natural consequences.

Actually a woman is only furtile for specific periods in a month, so simple planning and a measure of self control for limited periods in the month may well be 100% sure in a perfectly regulated human body.

Yes, that is the design, but what might be the reason people give why they wouldnt want to have a child? Another mouth to feed? Not a problem in your paradise earth, right? Too much work/exhausting? Will this be a problem in paradise earth? Too young? Too old? Too focused on career? Not in love with their partner? Why would it be an issue or problem to have thousands of children in paradise? We would face none of the issues that human beings face today as reasons why they might not want kids. That is a serious question? There is no limit on love. And if couples never grow old in paradise there is no limit on fertility.

Do you see how ludicrous your speculation about your literal planet earth is? JWs have clearly not thought this through. I find your notion of heaven extremely problematic.

QUESTION: Will everybody be having sex with everybody else in paradise?

The bible is very clear on God's standards as to sexual activity. Sex is a privilege to be uniquely enjoyed between a man and his (one) wife.

Scripture also clearly says how there will be no marriage in heaven. So if I had 6 husbands and they all died so I remarried on earth and I loved them all, who will I be with in paradise? Or will I find someone new? Can there be unreciprocated love in the here after? What if my favorite was husband number 2, but what if I wasnt his favorite? Again, these are serious questions and your paradise earth explanation falls very short if it is suggesting we will all just carry on like we did on earth " the only difference being there will be no death or disease. Such a theory doesnt eliminate our problems, it actually makes more problems. Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive.!

Jesus repeated this mandate when on earth and strongly indicated that this was a divine standard that was not to be violated. The bible holds numerous examples of God destroying those that indulged in sexual immorality and says explicitly that the sexually immoral will NOT inherit the kingdom (see 1 Cor 6:9). The bible speaks about the knowledge of Jehovah covering the whole earth in this new world, so we can conclude that the legal and moral basis for life under God's government will hold to such high standards with regard to sexual activity. Those that suggest that perfection will amount to a sexual free-for-all do so in opposition to the explicit statements in scripture.

But it isnt wrong or sinful to remarry if ones spouse has died. Also, are you recognizing the mystery and beauty of love? What causes two people to fall in love? Will there remain any of that mystery in your paradise earth? Where there still be the chance that the other person doesnt love you back or desire you as their partner for eternity and if so that means your paradise earth could contain a great deal of sorrow and sadness.

JW explanation is soooooooooo incomplete and again truly misses the mark. You all want to play house in some perfect Barbie world. I encourage you to focus on Jesus. Your missing that Jesus is where are gaze will be directed and no, we will not be sad that we might miss out on horse back riding or hot fudge sundaes. JW explanation of their literal earth paradise reminds me of an adult trying to explain to a young boy after being explained how wonderful sex is asks, Can I eat candy during sex? and the adult trying to explain to the boy he will not want to eat candy during sex. For the boy, his ultimate joy is eating candy, so he cant imagine there being something so awesome, beyond anything he has ever known that would not include candy. But we all know that is a nave thought. The fulfillment of the sexual act would not be enhanced if we could eat candy during it. And neither will the fulfillment of heaven be enhanced if we could only live on a paradise planet with rolling hills, green pastures, beautiful mansions, and talk to the animals. I know it is difficult to understand, but heaven is so much more than your idea of some perfect earthly government allocating resources and equal distribution to the masses. Dont you see? You are limiting the awesomeness of God and heaven! And your theory has so many logistic problems I do not know where to begin . . .

[JehovahsWitness]

I find your notion of heaven extremely problematic.

Although you are of course entitled to answer any post in any thread, I will point out that the OP is addressing the Jehovah's Witness point of view and asking for details about somethiing I said. I was personally invited to this thread by the OP quoting directly from something I myself posted.

Given the above my posts are explaining details about our beliefs (not yours) which involves life on earth; I feel confident that if anyone, anywhere on this forum wanted to take similar measures to find out the Catholic view on that matter they would ask (I am familiar with the Catholic prohibition on contraception and have no interest in discussing it, if I did I would post a thread asking about it rather than deraille this one).

In any case, I shall continue to answer questions directly asked to me about what we believe about the paradise earth and why. If you find the Jehovah's Witness explanation unconvincing, may I suggest you don't become one.

Whatever you decide please be sure to have a most excellent day,

JW

[RightReason]

[Replying to post 57 by JehovahsWitness]

Ha, ha, ha . . . IOW, you cant answer my questions and JWs obvious contradiction with Scripture.

My comments and questions are not about my Church. My questions and comments are about JW contradictory and problematic teaching.

Carry on . . .

[RightReason]

[Replying to post 57 by JehovahsWitness]

I have some legitimate questions that I would appreciate if you would answer:

Can we still get tired or cranky in paradise earth? Will women enjoy still getting our cycles every month in paradise earth?

What might be a reason two lovers in your paradise earth would not want children if time or money or physical ability are no longer issues?

Do you think it is ok to eat and then vomit so that you can have the pleasure of eating, but not allow the consequences of doing so?

How is enjoying the pleasure of sex, but then purposely blocking or preventing the consequences of that sexual act different from vomiting up food after enjoying eating it?

What if I have had several earthly husbands due to death and want to be with all my earthly husbands in your paradise earth? Will I have to make a choice? What if my choice is not reciprocated?

Is it possible in your paradise earth, if it were to last 1,000 years that I could have 1,000 babies?

[JehovahsWitness]

Can we still get tired ... in paradise earth?

Having understood that the meek that inherit the earth will be physical human beings, we can understand that all the bodily functions God designed us to have will continue. As has been explained earlier, humans were designed to feel hungry and eat and the need for physical rest and sleep to refresh and plenish the body will forever be a feature of being human.

Can a perfect human body get tired?

We can find a clue on this question from what the bible says about a perfect man that lived on earth, Jesus. Jesus had a perfect body (the exact equivalent of the first man Adam) yet the gospel account tells us that he slept and was on occassions very tired (compare Mk 4:38; John 4:6). No doubt with his perfect body, Jesus had extraordinary physical stamina but his body was still subject to the limitations of its design such as the need to breath air to live, the need for food (see Mat 4:2) for water (John 4:7) and as we have seen for adequate rest. None of these limitations however could be regarded as bad, as a "flaw" or a "imperfection" since Jesus was a perfect man without any kind of defect.

Given the above it seems reasonable to conclude that once mankind has returned to perfection and have perfect human bodies, like Jesus when on earth, they will continue to be subjects of the limitations of being physical human beings and will indeed need to breath, eat, and sleep and, like the Lord "feel tired" after a day of activity.

People will still need adequate rest in the new world



JW