Why do you not accept Islam?

[DanieltheDragon]

What reasons do any here have to reject Islam?

Is Islam the most accurate representation of god?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 10 by JehovahsWitness]

No, JP Cusick is right.

Elohim, is even pronounced in modern Arabic and near Arabic languages, Ella-im, or Allah-im, or "Oh (imploring) God."

That's right, Arabs use the same word for God Jesus used.

You, on the other hand use "God," which is Old German "Gut," or Chief.

I wonder if God even recognizes when you pray to him?

Where as Jehovah, when we write it in Latin is Jove or Iove (Ee-oh-veh). (J is an I, e is pronounced.) So you invoke God,a German title for Chief, and good old Jupiter. I certainly hope you don't worship a jealous god, or are allowed to put other gods before Elo-him.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 11 by Willum]

My post wasn't about the Hebrew Elohim (LORD in English) is was about the Divine Name (YHWH/Yawheh/Yehowah). These are two different words in Hebrew. Feel free to consult my post again (link below)
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 671#879671


JW

ps: My post was addressed to danielthedragon. I rarely bother to read JP Cusick's posts and was certainly not speaking to him.

[Mithrae]

[Replying to post 11 by Willum]

My post wasn't about the Hebrew Elohim (LORD in English) is was about the Divine Name (YHWH/Yawheh/Yehowah). These are two different words in Hebrew.

Actually in English bibles LORD generally denotes YHWH, not Elohim. For example in the King James Version, out of 6519 occurrences of Yhovah 6510 are translated as Lord. Of 2606 occurrences of 'elohiym, 2346 are translated God and a further 244 as god.

Throughout the New Testament, where quotations of the Tanakh include the divine name, the Greek kyrios (lord) is used. For example from Deuteronomy 6:5 ("You shall love Yhovah your 'elohiym with all your heart with all your soul, and with all your strength") the New Testament has "you shall love kyrios your theos with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength" (Mark 12:30). This is a convention which is also seen in some but certainly not all Jewish translations of Hebrew works to Greek.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragram ... anslations

[Justin108]

I don't accept Islam for several reasons.

# Islam claims to be a continuation or a progression from both Christianity and the religion of the ancient Jews. If that were the case this should be confirmed by both the witnesses given in the Hebrew and the Christian bibles without contradiction. I don't see this.

Can you specify the contradictions? Is this any different from the numerous contradictions that can be found in the Bible? Of course, you will excuse every Biblical contradiction and explain it away as a misinterpretation, but how do you know that your perceived contradictions in Islam aren't also misinterpretations?

And just to clarify: Islam is not a continuation of Christianity. Islam considers Jesus a prophet, but that's about it. Islam does not accept Paul, Revelation, or any non-Gospel book in the New Testament.

#Islam claims to worship the God of Abraham, Moses and of Jesus yet not once does the name of that God YHWH (Jehovah) appear or was recorded as being mentioned in the Quran.

Muslims call God "Allah" out of respect just as many Christians call God "Lord" out of respect. If a boy calls his father "Dad" rather than "Frank", does this somehow mean that they're talking about a different person? Or is the boy simply calling his father "Dad" out of respect?

#Islam claims to be a religion of peace, yet its history and its present day failure to to change the hearts and and conduct of its member from tribal, ethnic or religious violence to the peace of God does not testify to this.

Crusades, Salem witch trials, pedophilic priests. I can go on. Judging a religion based on what some of their followers do is a fallacy. Just as Christians can dismiss the above examples as "not good Christians", a Muslim can dismiss terrorists as "not good Muslims". The only fair way to assess a religion is to look at the religious teachings, and in both Islam and Christianity, there are commandments to kill non-believers, kill homosexuals, kill adulterers, etc. Give me one vile commandment in the Quran that is not present in the Bible as well? Every single vile commandment in the Quran can be found in the Bible, and if not, something equally vile can be found instead.

#I personally find Islam simplistic, ritualistic and being very familiar with its internal workings oppressive and entirely unappealing.

The Old Testament has entire pages dedicated to how to prepare an animal sacrifice and you call Islam ritualistic?

As for you finding it unappealing... is that how you normally determine truth? Did you choose Christianity (or Jehovah's Witness) because it was rational? Or because it was appealing? What does appeal have to do with whether or not a religion is true?


These are points that I've raised before which you usually choose to ignore so I would be delightfully surprised if you actually responded this time.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 12 by JehovahsWitness]

And you may feel free to ignore reality and keep worshiping German Chiefs and Jupiter, because like it or not, whatever YOU said about the matter, does change the facts, check out the pronunciation in the tag-line.

Or feel free to deny it.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 11 by Willum]

My post wasn't about the Hebrew Elohim (LORD in English) is was about the Divine Name (YHWH/Yawheh/Yehowah). These are two different words in Hebrew.

Actually in English bibles LORD generally denotes YHWH, not Elohim.

What most English bibles do with YHWH is not a translation but a replacement; replacing the original YHWH with an alternative (different) word with a different meaning. As I said, both Elohim and Yahweh are two different words in Hebrew and have different meanings. This is not up for debate since it is a linguistic fact.

To illustrate: Peter is a personal name. Teacher is a title. If a letter started "Dear Peter" but the translation started "Dear Teacher" the 'translator' has replaced one word (the name) with a generic title (Teacher)

The KJV and many other bibles have simply removed the Divine Name and put in an alternative word with a different meaning.


JW

[Willum]

[Replying to post 16 by JehovahsWitness]

Wrong.
They were written in Greek.
Greek.
Greek and Greek.

That Hebrew has words does not change this fact.
That the language was Aramaic, IS slightly important to your argument.

[1213]

Umm, what? Isn't that like saying Christians basically worship a statue glued to two crossed sticks?

It is not taught in Christianity that one must bow to some statue or earthly matter when he prays.

Just because you face a certain way or treat a location as special doesn't mean you are worshiping the item in question.

Then, why they do so, especially if God is so great?

It sounds like you have no actual reason for not being a Muslim other than some odd misconception.

Quran says:
The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah believe in Allah and His messengers.
Surat An-Nis' 4:171
http://quran.com/4/171

I do as Quran says when I believe Jesus, so is there any problem really?

[marco]

What reasons do any here have to reject Islam?

Is Islam the most accurate representation of god?

Islam supplied a 7th century need. It is a political system that incorporates the attributes of the Abrahamic God and utilises portions of Christianity. Used as a state religion it instils obedience, respect and fear, as Christianity once did. Since it seems to threaten my way of life in some of its manifestations I am rather reluctant to enthuse over it. It endorses some of the darker passages of the OT and attempts to give them practical application, so it is hard to see "Religion of Peace" as anything other than a euphemism.
I find it hard to believe that divinities appear in Middle Eastern caves and one would need to believe so to accept Islam.

[Clownboat]

What reasons do any here have to reject Islam?

Is Islam the most accurate representation of god?

I could choose to put my faith in the Bible god.
I could choose to put my faith in the Islamic god Allah.

Therefore, it simply seems to be a matter of where a person chooses to place their faith.

As far as the Islamic god being the most accurate. It is, if a person chooses to believe so via faith, but the same can be said for any god concept.

This tells me that faith is not a reliable way to arrive at truth. Faith is a requirement to believe in false things.

I could believe in Santa via faith. However, if I meet a real Santa Clause, with flying reindeer and all, faith in that true belief would no longer be required. This tells me that faith is not a requirement for arriving at truth.