What purpose would a system of government have when God is both omnipotent and omniscient? Why would an omnipotent God need to delegate in order to effectively rule? Can you perhaps give a few examples of what these rulers would be tasked to do? What purpose would rulers have in a paradise society? There is no economy to take care of, no resource distribution, no justice system as all members at this point will be free of sin... what is left for the rulers to do?JehovahsWitness wrote:
What purpose would a system of government have in heaven?
Moderator: Moderators
What purpose would a system of government have in heaven?
Post #1
Post #111
How do you know it's a lie?Benoni wrote:Because its a religions lie.Then why do you object to the idea that God would torture people for eternity?
What does that have to do with anything?Benoni wrote: Jesus blood is far greater than the sin of Adam.
By "no" you mean no you are not the only one on this site that is lead by the Spirit of truth? If you are not the only one on this site lead by the Spirit of truth, why then are you the only one on this site who believes in Christian Universalism? If the Spirit of truth leads others on this site as well, wouldn't they also believe in Christian Universalism?Benoni wrote:Yes.Do you believe you are lead by the Spirit of truth? Do you believe you are the only one on this site that is lead by the Spirit of truth?
No.
So if you believe something contrary to the tradition of religion, it's a sign that the Spirit of truth has revealed something to you?Benoni wrote:Another big question that cannot be answered with a one liner. When God reveals a hidden truth to you that has always been there in scripture and is totally contrary to the traditions of religion... that s a good start.How do you know there isn't a Spirit of truth in either of these religions? Why do you assume your religion is true but theirs is false?
And I've debated many Christians. So what? What does that prove?Benoni wrote:because I have debated many Muslims and Mormons.How do you know he doesn't hide himself in the Quran or the Book of Mormon?
Christianity is a religion. What's so special about what you believe that you transcend the category of religion?Benoni wrote:I do not believe in religion.Do you believe that of the 20 000 Christian religions, you have the one true Christian religion?
It is not a moot point. You claim that "age abiding" means there is an end, but then you change your mind and claim that life, despite being said to be "age abiding" is somehow eternal? How do you know life is eternal? How do you know punishment is not eternal?Benoni wrote:I see it as a mute point. God deals with ages with man. Man is not an eternal beingI never once used the word "aion", nor did I choose "age abiding". You did. All I did was point out your double standard in assuming the same word means two different things regarding "life" and "punishment"
Post #112
No I did not. one age leads to another. etc.Justin108 wrote:Benoni wrote:Because its a religions lie.Then why do you object to the idea that God would torture people for eternity?Do you really care?How do you know it's a lie?
Benoni wrote: Jesus blood is far greater than the sin of Adam.Obviously God's Word means nothing to you.What does that have to do with anything?
Benoni wrote:Yes.Do you believe you are lead by the Spirit of truth? Do you believe you are theonly one on this site that is lead by the Spirit of truth?
No.There many levels of relationship but obviously this means nothing to you.By "no" you mean no you are not the only one on this site that is lead by the Spirit of truth? If you are not the only one on this site lead by the Spirit of truth, why then are you the only one on this site who believes in Christian Universalism? If the Spirit of truth leads others on this site as well, wouldn't they also believe in Christian Universalism?
?Benoni wrote:Too deep for you.How do you know there isn't a Spirit of truth in either of these religions? Why do you assume your religion is true but theirs is false?
So if you believe something contrary to the tradition of religion, it's a sign that the Spirit of truth has revealed something to youAnother big question that cannot be answered with a one liner. When God reveals a hidden truth to you that has always been there in scripture and is totally contrary to the traditions of religion... that s a good start.
I gave you an example but that was not good enough.
Benoni wrote:because I have debated many Muslims and Mormons.How do you know he doesn't hide himself in the Quran or the Book of Mormon?nothing to youAnd I've debated many Christians. So what? What does that prove?
Christianity is a religion. What's so special about what you believe that you transcend the category of religion?Benoni wrote:I do notbelieve in religion. I told you that.Do you believe that of the 20 000 Christian religions, you have the one true Christian religion?
I do not believe in religion.
It is not a moot point. You claim that "age abiding" means there is an end, but then you change your mind and claim that life, despite being said to be "age abiding" is somehow eternal? How do you know life is eternal? How do you know punishment is not eternal?Benoni wrote:I see it as a mute point. God deals with ages with man. Man is not an eternal beingI never once used the word "aion", nor did I choose "age abiding". You did. All I did was point out your double standard in assuming the same word means two different things regarding "life" and "punishment"
Post #113
How do you know one age leads to another? And how do you know the same does not apply to punishment? What if one age leads to another during our punishment?Benoni wrote:No I did not. one age leads to another. etc.Justin108 wrote:Benoni wrote:Because its a religions lie.Then why do you object to the idea that God would torture people for eternity?Do you really care?How do you know it's a lie?
Benoni wrote: Jesus blood is far greater than the sin of Adam.Obviously God's Word means nothing to you.What does that have to do with anything?
Benoni wrote:Yes.Do you believe you are lead by the Spirit of truth? Do you believe you are theonly one on this site that is lead by the Spirit of truth?
No.There many levels of relationship but obviously this means nothing to you.By "no" you mean no you are not the only one on this site that is lead by the Spirit of truth? If you are not the only one on this site lead by the Spirit of truth, why then are you the only one on this site who believes in Christian Universalism? If the Spirit of truth leads others on this site as well, wouldn't they also believe in Christian Universalism?
?Benoni wrote:Too deep for you.How do you know there isn't a Spirit of truth in either of these religions? Why do you assume your religion is true but theirs is false?
So if you believe something contrary to the tradition of religion, it's a sign that the Spirit of truth has revealed something to youAnother big question that cannot be answered with a one liner. When God reveals a hidden truth to you that has always been there in scripture and is totally contrary to the traditions of religion... that s a good start.
I gave you an example but that was not good enough.
Benoni wrote:because I have debated many Muslims and Mormons.How do you know he doesn't hide himself in the Quran or the Book of Mormon?nothing to youAnd I've debated many Christians. So what? What does that prove?
Christianity is a religion. What's so special about what you believe that you transcend the category of religion?Benoni wrote:I do notbelieve in religion. I told you that.Do you believe that of the 20 000 Christian religions, you have the one true Christian religion?
I do not believe in religion.
It is not a moot point. You claim that "age abiding" means there is an end, but then you change your mind and claim that life, despite being said to be "age abiding" is somehow eternal? How do you know life is eternal? How do you know punishment is not eternal?Benoni wrote:I see it as a mute point. God deals with ages with man. Man is not an eternal beingI never once used the word "aion", nor did I choose "age abiding". You did. All I did was point out your double standard in assuming the same word means two different things regarding "life" and "punishment"
Also, can you perhaps answer the other several questions I asked?
Post #114
[Replying to post 113 by Justin108]
I already did this in an earlier post if your are reading my post. There are many ages
Here it is again.
I am not at all sure how many ages there have been in the past. There could have been countless ages for aught I know. I do know, however, that ages existed before Adam. There was a great age from Adam to the flood and another great age front the flood to the resurrection of Christ. The age of grace or the church age, of which we are now a part, runs from the resurrection to the setting up of the king- The kingdom age, next in order, will last at least one thousand years. Rev. 20:4. Then follows the age of the ages, or the dispensation of the fullness of times. The term age of the ages identifies this age as the greatest of all the ages. No age, not even the kingdom age, can be compared to it. Just as the Song of Solomon is the song of songs, that is, the greatest of all songs, and as the holy of holies is the holiest of all, so the age of the ages is the greatest age of all the ages, far surpassing even the millennial kingdom in its power and glory, its revelation of God, and its wonderful reconciliation and restitution. Men today use such terms as "the greatest day of my life," "our finest hour," or the "day of days." It is in this same sense that our almighty Father speaks of the dispensation of the fullness of times as the age of the ages
Here are a few examples of scriptures that support ages not age or two ages.
1. Unto the age. Mark 3:29.
2. Unto the ages. Luke 1:33. (plural)
3. Unto all the ages. Jude 25. (plural)
4. Unto the age of the age. Heb. 1:8.
5. Unto all the generations of the age of the ages. Eph. 3:21.
6. Unto the ages of the ages. Rev. 1:6.
7. Unto the day of an age. 2 Pet. 3:18.
I already did this in an earlier post if your are reading my post. There are many ages
Here it is again.
I am not at all sure how many ages there have been in the past. There could have been countless ages for aught I know. I do know, however, that ages existed before Adam. There was a great age from Adam to the flood and another great age front the flood to the resurrection of Christ. The age of grace or the church age, of which we are now a part, runs from the resurrection to the setting up of the king- The kingdom age, next in order, will last at least one thousand years. Rev. 20:4. Then follows the age of the ages, or the dispensation of the fullness of times. The term age of the ages identifies this age as the greatest of all the ages. No age, not even the kingdom age, can be compared to it. Just as the Song of Solomon is the song of songs, that is, the greatest of all songs, and as the holy of holies is the holiest of all, so the age of the ages is the greatest age of all the ages, far surpassing even the millennial kingdom in its power and glory, its revelation of God, and its wonderful reconciliation and restitution. Men today use such terms as "the greatest day of my life," "our finest hour," or the "day of days." It is in this same sense that our almighty Father speaks of the dispensation of the fullness of times as the age of the ages
Here are a few examples of scriptures that support ages not age or two ages.
1. Unto the age. Mark 3:29.
2. Unto the ages. Luke 1:33. (plural)
3. Unto all the ages. Jude 25. (plural)
4. Unto the age of the age. Heb. 1:8.
5. Unto all the generations of the age of the ages. Eph. 3:21.
6. Unto the ages of the ages. Rev. 1:6.
7. Unto the day of an age. 2 Pet. 3:18.
Post #115
[Replying to post 113 by Justin108]
Salvation for All
1 Corin 15: 21: For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23: But every man in his own order:
Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouths)
It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.
Hab 2:13-14
13 Behold, is it not of the LORD of hosts that the people shall labour in the very fire, and the people shall weary themselves for very vanity?
14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. (KJV)
1 Peter 3:18-20
Weymouths
Christ also once and for all died for the sins, the innocent ones and for the guilty many, in order to bring us to God. He was put to death in the flesh, but was made live in the spirit, in which he also went and proclaim His message to the Spirits in prison, who in ancient times had been disobedient, while Gods long suffering was patiently waiting in the days of Noal during the building of the Ark, in which a few persons " eight in number were brought safely though the water.
.
Rom 11:32: For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Luke 3:6: And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
Jer.31 The time is coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them," declares the LORD .
33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD ,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD . "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."
John 6:45 It is written in [the book of] the Prophets, and they shall all be taught of God [have Him in person for their Teacher]. Everyone who has listened to and learned from the Father comes to Me--
PS 139;8B If I make my bed in hell, behold thou art there.
Ps 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee. 28 For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations. (KJV)
1 Corin 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Note this says the world not just those in Christ.
Reconcile: 2643 katallage (kat-al-lag-ay');from 2644; exchange (figuratively, adjustment), i.e. restoration to (the divine) favor: KJV-- atonement, reconciliation (-ing).
1 Corin 5: 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Imputing: 3049 logizomai 3056; to take an inventory, i.e. estimate (literally or figuratively): KJV-- conclude, (ac-) count (of), + despise, esteem, impute, lay, number, reason, reckon, suppose, think (on).
Romans 8:18-25 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope, because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Luke 3: 6 (Amp)
And all mankind shall see (behold and [a]understand
and at last acknowledge) the salvation of God
(the deliverance from eternal death decreed by God).
Luke 3:6:
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
Rom 11:26:
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, there shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
Rom 11:32:
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Num 14:21
But indeed as I live all the earth will be filled with the glory of the Lord.
Hab 2:13-14
13 Behold, is it not of the LORD of hosts that the people shall labour in the very fire, and the people shall weary themselves for very vanity?
14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. (KJV)
Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouths)
It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.
Acts 15:14
Declares that he will return again and restore the Tabernacle of David and then he will save the remainder of mankind
Corin 15: 21:
For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23: But every man in his own order:
Because the scripture says age long chastisement. In the end all will be saved,And how do you know the same does not apply to punishment?
Salvation for All
1 Corin 15: 21: For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23: But every man in his own order:
Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouths)
It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.
Hab 2:13-14
13 Behold, is it not of the LORD of hosts that the people shall labour in the very fire, and the people shall weary themselves for very vanity?
14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. (KJV)
1 Peter 3:18-20
Weymouths
Christ also once and for all died for the sins, the innocent ones and for the guilty many, in order to bring us to God. He was put to death in the flesh, but was made live in the spirit, in which he also went and proclaim His message to the Spirits in prison, who in ancient times had been disobedient, while Gods long suffering was patiently waiting in the days of Noal during the building of the Ark, in which a few persons " eight in number were brought safely though the water.
.
Rom 11:32: For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Luke 3:6: And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
Jer.31 The time is coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them," declares the LORD .
33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD ,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD . "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."
John 6:45 It is written in [the book of] the Prophets, and they shall all be taught of God [have Him in person for their Teacher]. Everyone who has listened to and learned from the Father comes to Me--
PS 139;8B If I make my bed in hell, behold thou art there.
Ps 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee. 28 For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations. (KJV)
1 Corin 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Note this says the world not just those in Christ.
Reconcile: 2643 katallage (kat-al-lag-ay');from 2644; exchange (figuratively, adjustment), i.e. restoration to (the divine) favor: KJV-- atonement, reconciliation (-ing).
1 Corin 5: 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Imputing: 3049 logizomai 3056; to take an inventory, i.e. estimate (literally or figuratively): KJV-- conclude, (ac-) count (of), + despise, esteem, impute, lay, number, reason, reckon, suppose, think (on).
Romans 8:18-25 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope, because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Luke 3: 6 (Amp)
And all mankind shall see (behold and [a]understand
and at last acknowledge) the salvation of God
(the deliverance from eternal death decreed by God).
Luke 3:6:
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
Rom 11:26:
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, there shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
Rom 11:32:
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Num 14:21
But indeed as I live all the earth will be filled with the glory of the Lord.
Hab 2:13-14
13 Behold, is it not of the LORD of hosts that the people shall labour in the very fire, and the people shall weary themselves for very vanity?
14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. (KJV)
Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouths)
It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.
Acts 15:14
Declares that he will return again and restore the Tabernacle of David and then he will save the remainder of mankind
Corin 15: 21:
For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23: But every man in his own order:
Post #116
Ok let me rephrase my question: how do you know one age leads to another forever? How do you know that one day, there won't be a final age and after that age, everyone will die?Benoni wrote: [Replying to post 113 by Justin108]
I already did this in an earlier post if your are reading my post. There are many ages
Here it is again.
I am not at all sure how many ages there have been in the past. There could have been countless ages for aught I know. I do know, however, that ages existed before Adam. There was a great age from Adam to the flood and another great age front the flood to the resurrection of Christ. The age of grace or the church age, of which we are now a part, runs from the resurrection to the setting up of the king- The kingdom age, next in order, will last at least one thousand years. Rev. 20:4. Then follows the age of the ages, or the dispensation of the fullness of times. The term age of the ages identifies this age as the greatest of all the ages. No age, not even the kingdom age, can be compared to it. Just as the Song of Solomon is the song of songs, that is, the greatest of all songs, and as the holy of holies is the holiest of all, so the age of the ages is the greatest age of all the ages, far surpassing even the millennial kingdom in its power and glory, its revelation of God, and its wonderful reconciliation and restitution. Men today use such terms as "the greatest day of my life," "our finest hour," or the "day of days." It is in this same sense that our almighty Father speaks of the dispensation of the fullness of times as the age of the ages
Here are a few examples of scriptures that support ages not age or two ages.
1. Unto the age. Mark 3:29.
2. Unto the ages. Luke 1:33. (plural)
3. Unto all the ages. Jude 25. (plural)
4. Unto the age of the age. Heb. 1:8.
5. Unto all the generations of the age of the ages. Eph. 3:21.
6. Unto the ages of the ages. Rev. 1:6.
7. Unto the day of an age. 2 Pet. 3:18.
Post #117
[Replying to post 116 by Justin108]
Because: The last enemy Jesus will kill is death. No more physical death. No more spiritual death..... No more death. Got to go be back later tonight.
Salvation for All
1 Corin 15: 21: For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23: But every man in his own order:
Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouths)
It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.
Hab 2:13-14
13 Behold, is it not of the LORD of hosts that the people shall labour in the very fire, and the people shall weary themselves for very vanity?
14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. (KJV)
1 Peter 3:18-20
Weymouths
Christ also once and for all died for the sins, the innocent ones and for the guilty many, in order to bring us to God. He was put to death in the flesh, but was made live in the spirit, in which he also went and proclaim His message to the Spirits in prison, who in ancient times had been disobedient, while Gods long suffering was patiently waiting in the days of Noal during the building of the Ark, in which a few persons " eight in number were brought safely though the water.
.
Rom 11:32: For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Luke 3:6: And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
Jer.31 The time is coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them," declares the LORD .
33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD ,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD . "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."
John 6:45 It is written in [the book of] the Prophets, and they shall all be taught of God [have Him in person for their Teacher]. Everyone who has listened to and learned from the Father comes to Me--
PS 139;8B If I make my bed in hell, behold thou art there.
Ps 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee. 28 For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations. (KJV)
1 Corin 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Note this says the world not just those in Christ.
Reconcile: 2643 katallage (kat-al-lag-ay');from 2644; exchange (figuratively, adjustment), i.e. restoration to (the divine) favor: KJV-- atonement, reconciliation (-ing).
1 Corin 5: 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Imputing: 3049 logizomai 3056; to take an inventory, i.e. estimate (literally or figuratively): KJV-- conclude, (ac-) count (of), + despise, esteem, impute, lay, number, reason, reckon, suppose, think (on).
Romans 8:18-25 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope, because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Luke 3: 6 (Amp)
And all mankind shall see (behold and [a]understand
and at last acknowledge) the salvation of God
(the deliverance from eternal death decreed by God).
Luke 3:6:
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
Rom 11:26:
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, there shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
Rom 11:32:
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Num 14:21
But indeed as I live all the earth will be filled with the glory of the Lord.
Hab 2:13-14
13 Behold, is it not of the LORD of hosts that the people shall labour in the very fire, and the people shall weary themselves for very vanity?
14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. (KJV)
Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouths)
It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.
Acts 15:14
Declares that he will return again and restore the Tabernacle of David and then he will save the remainder of mankind
Corin 15: 21:
For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23: But every man in his own order:
Because: The last enemy Jesus will kill is death. No more physical death. No more spiritual death..... No more death. Got to go be back later tonight.
Salvation for All
1 Corin 15: 21: For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23: But every man in his own order:
Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouths)
It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.
Hab 2:13-14
13 Behold, is it not of the LORD of hosts that the people shall labour in the very fire, and the people shall weary themselves for very vanity?
14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. (KJV)
1 Peter 3:18-20
Weymouths
Christ also once and for all died for the sins, the innocent ones and for the guilty many, in order to bring us to God. He was put to death in the flesh, but was made live in the spirit, in which he also went and proclaim His message to the Spirits in prison, who in ancient times had been disobedient, while Gods long suffering was patiently waiting in the days of Noal during the building of the Ark, in which a few persons " eight in number were brought safely though the water.
.
Rom 11:32: For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Luke 3:6: And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
Jer.31 The time is coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them," declares the LORD .
33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD ,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD . "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."
John 6:45 It is written in [the book of] the Prophets, and they shall all be taught of God [have Him in person for their Teacher]. Everyone who has listened to and learned from the Father comes to Me--
PS 139;8B If I make my bed in hell, behold thou art there.
Ps 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee. 28 For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations. (KJV)
1 Corin 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Note this says the world not just those in Christ.
Reconcile: 2643 katallage (kat-al-lag-ay');from 2644; exchange (figuratively, adjustment), i.e. restoration to (the divine) favor: KJV-- atonement, reconciliation (-ing).
1 Corin 5: 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Imputing: 3049 logizomai 3056; to take an inventory, i.e. estimate (literally or figuratively): KJV-- conclude, (ac-) count (of), + despise, esteem, impute, lay, number, reason, reckon, suppose, think (on).
Romans 8:18-25 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope, because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Luke 3: 6 (Amp)
And all mankind shall see (behold and [a]understand
and at last acknowledge) the salvation of God
(the deliverance from eternal death decreed by God).
Luke 3:6:
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
Rom 11:26:
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, there shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
Rom 11:32:
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Num 14:21
But indeed as I live all the earth will be filled with the glory of the Lord.
Hab 2:13-14
13 Behold, is it not of the LORD of hosts that the people shall labour in the very fire, and the people shall weary themselves for very vanity?
14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. (KJV)
Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouths)
It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.
Acts 15:14
Declares that he will return again and restore the Tabernacle of David and then he will save the remainder of mankind
Corin 15: 21:
For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23: But every man in his own order:
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onewithhim
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Post #118
It is understood by scholars, I understand, that the above phrases simply mean "FOREVER." That is the way it is translated by most translators. All of the references above are translated as "forever."Justin108 wrote:Ok let me rephrase my question: how do you know one age leads to another forever? How do you know that one day, there won't be a final age and after that age, everyone will die?Benoni wrote: [Replying to post 113 by Justin108]
I already did this in an earlier post if your are reading my post. There are many ages
Here it is again.
I am not at all sure how many ages there have been in the past. There could have been countless ages for aught I know. I do know, however, that ages existed before Adam. There was a great age from Adam to the flood and another great age front the flood to the resurrection of Christ. The age of grace or the church age, of which we are now a part, runs from the resurrection to the setting up of the king- The kingdom age, next in order, will last at least one thousand years. Rev. 20:4. Then follows the age of the ages, or the dispensation of the fullness of times. The term age of the ages identifies this age as the greatest of all the ages. No age, not even the kingdom age, can be compared to it. Just as the Song of Solomon is the song of songs, that is, the greatest of all songs, and as the holy of holies is the holiest of all, so the age of the ages is the greatest age of all the ages, far surpassing even the millennial kingdom in its power and glory, its revelation of God, and its wonderful reconciliation and restitution. Men today use such terms as "the greatest day of my life," "our finest hour," or the "day of days." It is in this same sense that our almighty Father speaks of the dispensation of the fullness of times as the age of the ages
Here are a few examples of scriptures that support ages not age or two ages.
1. Unto the age. Mark 3:29.
2. Unto the ages. Luke 1:33. (plural)
3. Unto all the ages. Jude 25. (plural)
4. Unto the age of the age. Heb. 1:8.
5. Unto all the generations of the age of the ages. Eph. 3:21.
6. Unto the ages of the ages. Rev. 1:6.
7. Unto the day of an age. 2 Pet. 3:18.
Now, if I may add another $.02, we know that there will not be a "final age" after which everyone will die because the Bible tells us that the earth will remain forever, with people living upon it.
1. (a) "A generation is going, and a generation is coming, and the earth to the age is standing." (Ecclesiastes 1:4, Young's Literal Translation)
(b) "A generation goes and a generation comes, but the earth remains forever." (New American Standard Bible)
2. (a) "The praise of Jehovah my mouth speaketh, and all flesh doth bless His holy name, to the age and forever." (Psalm 145:21, Young's Literal Translation)
(b) "My mouth will speak the praise of the LORD, and all flesh will bless His holy name forever and ever." (New American Standard Bible)
I have compared two versions to show that it is pretty clear that "the age," etc., means "forever." And, also, if "flesh" is going to praise Jehovah's name forever, it's rather obvious that this "flesh" means people, and they will be on this earth forever, because flesh cannot exist in heaven (I Corinthians 15:50).
Post #119
[Replying to post 118 by onewithhim]
Unto the ages of the ages. Rev. 1:6.
What I believe is when we come to the age of ages; then all will be all; but there will always be more. God does not deal with man in eternities; He deals with ages. I believe there are many ages to come; and there have been ages that have ended. Only God can answer how many ages there are; we know in part until that which is perfect has come; that which is part shall be done away with.
Unto the ages of the ages. Rev. 1:6.
What I believe is when we come to the age of ages; then all will be all; but there will always be more. God does not deal with man in eternities; He deals with ages. I believe there are many ages to come; and there have been ages that have ended. Only God can answer how many ages there are; we know in part until that which is perfect has come; that which is part shall be done away with.
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onewithhim
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Post #120
Well, don't we have a reasonably clear understanding of what "unto the age" means now? I mean, if my input means anything. Can we depart from Benoni's confusion?onewithhim wrote:It is understood by scholars, I understand, that the above phrases simply mean "FOREVER." That is the way it is translated by most translators. All of the references above are translated as "forever."Justin108 wrote:Ok let me rephrase my question: how do you know one age leads to another forever? How do you know that one day, there won't be a final age and after that age, everyone will die?Benoni wrote: [Replying to post 113 by Justin108]
I already did this in an earlier post if your are reading my post. There are many ages
Here it is again.
I am not at all sure how many ages there have been in the past. There could have been countless ages for aught I know. I do know, however, that ages existed before Adam. There was a great age from Adam to the flood and another great age front the flood to the resurrection of Christ. The age of grace or the church age, of which we are now a part, runs from the resurrection to the setting up of the king- The kingdom age, next in order, will last at least one thousand years. Rev. 20:4. Then follows the age of the ages, or the dispensation of the fullness of times. The term age of the ages identifies this age as the greatest of all the ages. No age, not even the kingdom age, can be compared to it. Just as the Song of Solomon is the song of songs, that is, the greatest of all songs, and as the holy of holies is the holiest of all, so the age of the ages is the greatest age of all the ages, far surpassing even the millennial kingdom in its power and glory, its revelation of God, and its wonderful reconciliation and restitution. Men today use such terms as "the greatest day of my life," "our finest hour," or the "day of days." It is in this same sense that our almighty Father speaks of the dispensation of the fullness of times as the age of the ages
Here are a few examples of scriptures that support ages not age or two ages.
1. Unto the age. Mark 3:29.
2. Unto the ages. Luke 1:33. (plural)
3. Unto all the ages. Jude 25. (plural)
4. Unto the age of the age. Heb. 1:8.
5. Unto all the generations of the age of the ages. Eph. 3:21.
6. Unto the ages of the ages. Rev. 1:6.
7. Unto the day of an age. 2 Pet. 3:18.
Now, if I may add another $.02, we know that there will not be a "final age" after which everyone will die because the Bible tells us that the earth will remain forever, with people living upon it.
1. (a) "A generation is going, and a generation is coming, and the earth to the age is standing." (Ecclesiastes 1:4, Young's Literal Translation)
(b) "A generation goes and a generation comes, but the earth remains forever." (New American Standard Bible)
2. (a) "The praise of Jehovah my mouth speaketh, and all flesh doth bless His holy name, to the age and forever." (Psalm 145:21, Young's Literal Translation)
(b) "My mouth will speak the praise of the LORD, and all flesh will bless His holy name forever and ever." (New American Standard Bible)
I have compared two versions to show that it is pretty clear that "the age," etc., means "forever." And, also, if "flesh" is going to praise Jehovah's name forever, it's rather obvious that this "flesh" means people, and they will be on this earth forever, because flesh cannot exist in heaven (I Corinthians 15:50).
