The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[tam]

Peace to you JW,

I am not sure that I can explain this any clearer than the definition that you provided, but what you are saying is NOT what the definition you provided is saying. I find your post (155) very confusing (it is stating two opposite things and suggesting that both are true).

The definition you provided states that a Kingdom HAS a government. The definition you provided does NOT state that a Kingdom IS the government. The definition you provided 100% supports my post 154.

[Replying to post 157 by JehovahsWitness]

Ruler (King) + Citizens = KINGDOM

Yes.

Ruler(s) + Citizens = GOVERMENT

Incorrect.

A government is not both ruler(s) and citizens; a government rules over the citizens in the kingdom/country/territory.

Rulers = government

Can God's kingdom be rightly and accurately described as ONLY government? Yes because "government" by definition is NOT just the authority, it is the authority over subjects or citizens. The word encompasses both the power and the exercise of that power over subjects. The only difference between a government and a kingdom is that the latter is headed by a king or a queen.

That is incorrect, according to the definition you provided.

The difference between a Kingdom and, say, a democratic country is (among other things) their form of government: the former has a king/queen and the latter has some type of elected official(s). They would not both be monarchical governments.

But the difference between a Kingdom and a government cannot be that one has a king (or queen) and the other does not. Because a monarchical government has a king (or queen).



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 126 by onewithhim]

2) If it [the kingdom of God] has always been here, why is the world still suffering?

Because God wanted a people who worshiped and loved Him because He had captured their hearts and were not robots.

Therefore He gave to man freedom to choose to do so or not do so.

[JehovahsWitness]

I am not surprised you shy away from expaining who is in the kingdom and what it does. This is regretable since the kingdom was the main theme of Jesus preaching work.

Just what I said, you are so predictable and can always be relied on to tell us "certain truths" that do not reflect what scripture conveys.

And are you attempting to imply that the KINGDOM was not the main theme of Jesus' preaching work?

No, not at al

Good then what was your point?

[JehovahsWitness]

{snip}... a monarchical government has a king (or queen).

So which kind of Government does Jesus head?

ISAIAH 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called [...] Prince of Peace.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 126 by onewithhim]

3) What does it actually mean that there will be new heavens and a new earth?

The end of suffering and death, a completely new experience and reality, including God dwelling with man, that none of us really knows.

What little we do know is a few scriptures; primarily Isaiah 65:17-25 and Revelation 21 and 22.

Is it what you are waiting for?

[Checkpoint]

I am not surprised you shy away from expaining who is in the kingdom and what it does. This is regretable since the kingdom was the main theme of Jesus preaching work.

Just what I said, you are so predictable and can always be relied on to tell us "certain truths" that do not reflect what scripture conveys.

And are you attempting to imply that the KINGDOM was not the main theme of Jesus' preaching work?

No, not at al

Good then what was your point?

The point was your kingdom message is not that of Jesus and Paul, in that the kingdom Jesus preached was a reality in his own life and in that of many of his followers.

He had authority as king and used it.

[Checkpoint]

{snip}... a monarchical government has a king (or queen).

So which kind of Government does Jesus head?

ISAIAH 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called [...] Prince of Peace.

As king of a heavenly kingdom not of this world, he brings his peace to his people, the sons of the kingdom.

John 14:27

Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid.

John 16:33

I have told you these things so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take courage; I have overcome the world!.

Ephesians 2:

12 Remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility
15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,
16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near.
18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.

[ttruscott]

What is God's kingdom? God's Kingdom is a heavenly government.

Applying an earthly typiction of kingdom to the Spirit is such a waste...GOD's rule is through love and our free will obedience to righteousness and nothing else. Government, meah! We will be Family, we will be Church! We will experience the kingdom as we experience fellowship as expressed by the word and act of Communion! WE WILL BE MARRIED!!! Read the Song of Solomon...Gov't, pffft"!

Why we turn the joys of GOD into cold and heartless human ideas of organization is a mystery to me...

[JehovahsWitness]

{snip}... a monarchical government has a king (or queen).

So which kind of Government does Jesus head?

ISAIAH 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called [...] Prince of Peace.

As king of a heavenly kingdom not of this world, he brings his peace to his people, the sons of the kingdom.

You haven't answered my question.

I didn't ask what will it does, nor did I ask you where it is located I asked: which kind of Government does Jesus head?


I don't know is an acceptable answer.


JW


ps: Isn't this about the time you are due to descend into nubulous non-speak (or grey speak) where you try and be so vague you cover all your bases and cannot be pinned down and end up not actually answering the question?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 126 by onewithhim]

4) What do these two scriptures mean: Isaiah 9:6,7; Daniel 2:44 ?

Interesting question that invites an answer, one which takes the scriptural and historical context into consideration.

Isaiah 9:

1 But there will be no gloom for her who was in anguish. In the former time He brought into contempt the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, but in the latter time He has made glorious the way of the sea, the land beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles.

2 The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light;
those who dwelt in a land of deep darkness, on them has light shone.

3 You have multiplied the nation; You have increased its joy;
they rejoice before You as with joy at the harvest,
as they are glad when they divide the spoil.
4 For the yoke of his burden, and the staff for his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor,
You have broken as on the day of Midian.
5 For every boot of the tramping warrior in battle tumult and every garment rolled in blood will be burned as fuel for the fire.

6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given;
and the government is upon his shoulder,
and his name is called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father,
Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end,
on the throne of David and over his kingdom,
to establish it and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness
from this time forth and forevermore.
The zeal of YHVH of hosts will do this.

This passage is clearly referring to the throne of David and to Jesus of Nazareth in Galilee.

He is the child born, the son given, establishing and heading a government, under God, that continues to increase from "this time forth" (of the setting of the prophecy), and will be "forevermore".

Daniel 2:

34 As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces.
35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold, all together were broken in pieces, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

42 And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle.
43 As you saw the iron mixed with soft clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage,c but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay.

44 And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever,

45 just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold.

A great God has made known to the king what shall come to pass. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure.

The meaning is similar to what Isaiah 9 conveys to us.

God's kingdom will be set up "in the days of those kings", and will grow or increase from a stone "cut by no human hand" into a great mountain to fill the earth and last forever.

We know the stone is Jesus, and we know "those kings" represented the Roman empire that was ruling during the time of Jesus.

It was to one of them that Jesus talked of the kingdom, saying "my kingdom is not of this world".