Are Christians obscessed with sex and violence?

[Cmass]

For several days I made a very honest attempt to experience being a Christian. During that time I spent several hours in our local Christian bookstore. My preconceptions about the contents of that store were shattered when I found it was not a store of hope, peace, calm and goodwill. I can only describe it as a house of horror and a bizarre form of pornography.
Book after book after book concerning the apocalypse, about who will burn in hell, about what hell torture is like, graphic depictions of suffering and pain. Some were even devoted to talking about why God thinks war can sometimes be a good thing. (I'm not kidding!) There was an incredible amount devoted to our "enemies" and violence and God's punishments. I was repulsed.
There were also many, many, many books about sex: The role of sex in marriage, how to make sex in your marriage better, how God views sex, how men should manage there lust, what teenage girls can and cannot do with their privates, how teenage boys can keep their virginity and what God thinks about masturbation. Of course there were plenty of the obligatory gays and why they are doomed to eternal hellfire and methods for overcoming their gay lifestyle. Some books even combined the sexual and violence when talking about gays. It was truly bizarre and unsettling.
And then, of course there are the sexualized drawings of Jesus - even in the children's books.
And, of course, ironically there were books about "family values" and how terribly sexualized our culture has become.
The sheer volume of this material along with it's prominent display was shocking.


Are fundamentalist Christians obsessed with sex and violence?
I think it would be immoral to bring my child in there and expose him to all that. Am I right?

[melikio]

While I might agree with some of what you have stated here, I have to say this: Love is an emotion. NOthing more and nothing less.

Actually, it is far more than I have ever stated here or elsewhere; it's that deep.

If people were just "machines", then I wouldn't emphasize the importance of what love might mean. It's clearly MORE than mere emotion, especially in the sense Jesus explained and promoted it.

It comes and goes at a whim and doesn't overcome fear or hatred because these to are also emotions.

Why are you proven wrong, by multitudes of people? Actually, I've seen it do all the things you believe it cannot do.

Love cant cure mankind, only enlightenment can.

Knowledge is but ONE single component of what mankind needs to be better off. I've known scores of very intelligent and knowledgeable people; more than a few have been difficult a-holes (period).

Love is so fickle that people apply to anything to make themselves or those around them feel better, but like any drug that effects emotions, how the person feels in the morning can be just the opposite of love.

Love is more than (mere) feelings; I implied that in my original post on this thread. And books on the subject can still be written. I'm talking mostly about application of love's principles, not necessarily the feelings it may evoke.

If you truly want to make a difference in mankind, then do it with knowledge, not some overused concept we call human emotions.

If you think knowledge is all people need, then you are simply mistaken; people aren't "computers"; they naturally feel, laugh, cry and care about others. Now, we can argue quite a bit about what MADE us that way, but we cannot (simply) disregard the absolute importance of how we happen to be.

If intellect or knowledge alone were the answer to mankind's problems, then it wouldn't be true that some of the SMARTEST and most KNOWLEDGEABLE people in the world, have brought mankind the most pain it has ever endured.

After what I've seen in life, you likely cannot get me to believe that "knowledge" is THE answer.

Consciously regarding WHY and in what manner we apply what is (or can be) known, is just as important (if not more) as the "knowledge" itself. There is a marked difference between (RAW) knowledge, and the "wisdom" by which knowledge may be applied; smarty-pants a-holes are a dime a dozen, people who have depth of understanding and earnestly seek to truly improve the lives of others are less plentiful. I'd rather deal with a level-headed, person of average education than some brilliant, arrogant person, who thinks he/she knows more than they really do.

If you talk to relatively OLDER people, and they will typically illustrate or emphasize the importance of what I've said/implied here.

Even so, since the OP focused upon Christians being "obsessed" with sex and/or violence, I'm sharing what I believe to be a more practical approach to resolving the problem of BOTH (apparent) obsessions. Knowledge alone, is NOT the full solution.

-Mel-

[Cmass]

Even so, since the OP focused upon Christians being "obsessed" with sex and/or violence,

Perhaps I should elaborate:
My OP was a product of my surprise. I really expected to see a Mayberry/God loves you/Don't do drugs/Brush your teeth/Pray each night vibe. There was indeed plenty of that - lots and lots of that. But the prevalence of sex, the incredible volume of anger and violence and even the occasional sexual violence not only surprised me, it actually frightened me.
I could not help but think: "THIS is what they are teaching each other. THIS is what they are surrounding themselves with. This is the world they have created for themselves. What a dark, angry, scary world. So many bad dreams, fears and threats candy-coated with a multitude of pastoral scenes and smiling faces with capped teeth. And although it is printed in every single article, there is very little love and forgiveness here." That is how I felt right before I left.
While it is obviously hypocritical to have your left hand waving a bible shouting at the progressive-liberal-do-gooder-pervert-commies while your right arm is loaded up with books on violence and discussions of sex, in the end, it is all about marketing. It is all about appealing to the parts within you that you love to hate - and hate in others. It is a violent, angry, sex-food intended to feed the colossal Christian marketing machine. Gobble gobble gobble. It's all about sales. Fear and sex move product off shelves no matter who you are selling to or what product you are selling.

---------------
Look, the world is about to end! God likes WAR!! Gay people are on the rampage with their gaymaker guns. Kill, Kill Kill! Sell, Sell Sell!
----------------

I have brought up the sexy Jesus topic numerous times in various threads and have yet to find a good accounting for it other than perhaps racial vanity. I have yet to see a Jesus doll that resembles a person of that region and time. (and yes, there has been much study of this) Nor have I seen a movie Jesus or a story Jesus or any other Jesus - including in children's books - that depict him as anything other than European and having perfectly clean, white teeth, perfectly dressed, tall, handsome, long hair, long eyelashes etc... He is always depicted as "appealing". But why? Why make him visually "appealing"? Do his words not cut it? Is his message not strong enough? What do you think your teenage daughter or your gay-lifestyle-loving-dabbling-in-weed-God-hating son think when they see this beautiful, clean, strong, tall handsome man?
"Hmmm, I wonder what is under that robe?"

If I were Christian, I would be honest and admit what I am pointing out was an embarrassment to my faith. I would say it was something that should be stopped. This giant mega-marketing, corporate goliath should be slain before the eyes of the Lord before it consumes it's hosts.
I had a conversation recently with the pastor of my Mom's church (Yes, this atheists Mom works as a church librarian in her retirement - what do you think of them apples!) about a similar topic - which I ended with a similar statement. The pastor's answer was "you are right, Chris, it is an embarrassment".
Now that wasn't too tough was it? (Then again, this is a liberal church (UCC) and he is a liberal, do-gooder, commie who drives a Prius - go figure!)

[Cmass]

smarty-pants a-holes are a dime a dozen

I have called myself a smarty-pants many times. People who know me in person don't think I'm an a-hole but it is certainly possible. I rather love sarcasm. Does my smarty-pantsness shallow the depth of my thought?

I'd rather deal with a level-headed, person of average education than some brilliant, arrogant person, who thinks he/she knows more than they really do.

Here here!

One of my father's favorite lines was (still is) "The data presented is far less important than the interpretation rendered" He would usually say that right before he told me that "prudence is the better part of valor".

Quote from Confused:
It comes and goes at a whim and doesn't overcome fear or hatred because these to are also emotions.
...and from Mel:
Why are you proven wrong, by multitudes of people? Actually, I've seen it do all the things you believe it cannot do.

Love is more than (mere) feelings; I implied that in my original post on this thread. And books on the subject can still be written. I'm talking mostly about application of love's principles, not necessarily the feelings it may evoke.

My own brief note on this:
But is love anything more than a physical experience? Can your feelings of love be chemically altered? Can I, say, make you no longer in love someone by inserting an electrode into a certain portion of your brain? Can I make you incabable of love by altering your brain chemistry? Can I damage your brain in a certain way so that you express love for everyone you meet?
(Answers: No. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. All well documented)

The fact that we are big bags of chemicals that perceive and experience our world through known physical processes does not reduce or demean our experiences. It just explains them. As profound as it is, love is still a physical experience.

Love can a be wonderful, scary, fun, tormenting experience that any healthy person capable of empathy and attachment can experience. But, depending upon the depth of your attachment, it can come and go.
And sometimes it won't go away when it should: I am working very closely with a woman on a work project who recently divorced her husband. She is 1st generation Cambodian and married this fellow because he asked her to. After 3 years of hell she caught him with another woman, (sorry, this guy is no liberal - he is a Southern Babtist redneck) she was beaten and raped by this man - so violently that it required medical treatment. She was so fearful of him she is not pursuing any action against him. (I did some research for her and guided her to several Asian Women's clinics and shelters.)
You know what? She claims she still loves him.

[melikio]

I could not help but think: "THIS is what they are teaching each other. THIS is what they are surrounding themselves with. This is the world they have created for themselves. What a dark, angry, scary world. So many bad dreams, fears and threats candy-coated with a multitude of pastoral scenes and smiling faces with capped teeth. And although it is printed in every single article, there is very little love and forgiveness here." That is how I felt right before I left.

Before I nearly threw out EVERYTHING "Christian" from my life, I realize the same thing/s (and I didn't pick it up from one visit to a bookstore; I saw it in the POLITICS and social attitudes of many who identify with Christianity itself).

I will not debate you, and say that something is NOT wrong with Christianity's "image" (especially here in America); in large part that wrong image exists, because much (not all things) of what is INSIDE of modern American Christianity does NOT represent the essence of Jesus' teachings. I don't know how we are going to FIX it completely, and I only have one overall answer (love).

While it is obviously hypocritical to have your left hand waving a bible shouting at the progressive-liberal-do-gooder-pervert-commies while your right arm is loaded up with books on violence and discussions of sex, in the end, it is all about marketing.

Really, it's too bad that it has all become as "commercial" and "political" as it has.

It is all about appealing to the parts within you that you love to hate - and hate in others. It is a violent, angry, sex-food intended to feed the colossal Christian marketing machine. Gobble gobble gobble. It's all about sales. Fear and sex move product off shelves no matter who you are selling to or what product you are selling.

The only part of this that I didn't realize before now, was how much a "Christian" bookstore might reflect the same. I've certainly noticed it in today's politics, particularly espoused by many who BOLDLY proclaim to be "Christian".

---------------
Look, the world is about to end! God likes WAR!! Gay people are on the rampage with their gaymaker guns. Kill, Kill Kill! Sell, Sell Sell!
----------------

Some time before I became critical of a certain right-leaning, cable news channel; I used to believe similar things.

I have yet to see a Jesus doll that resembles a person of that region and time. (and yes, there has been much study of this) Nor have I seen a movie Jesus or a story Jesus or any other Jesus - including in children's books - that depict him as anything other than European and having perfectly clean, white teeth, perfectly dressed, tall, handsome, long hair, long eyelashes etc... He is always depicted as "appealing". But why? Why make him visually "appealing"? Do his words not cut it? Is his message not strong enough?

People tend to see Jesus as they see themselves. I don't agree with evey "image" of Him, but I understand why people see Him in various ways.

What do you think your teenage daughter or your gay-lifestyle-loving-dabbling-in-weed-God-hating son think when they see this beautiful, clean, strong, tall handsome man?

LOL! If they are "normal", they WILL have some interest in another person's sexuality. We may not agree with whatever "fantasies" or thoughts others might have, but it's normal to consider certain things; if casually. That they are rarely talked about, is likely a product of our social environment.

"Hmmm, I wonder what is under that robe?"

Probably not the type of hygiene standards we have come to expect and enjoy (in these modern times).

If I were Christian, I would be honest and admit what I am pointing out was an embarrassment to my faith. I would say it was something that should be stopped.

There ARE Christians who do speak out about the commercialization and/or Americanization of Christianity; I thank God for them.

This giant mega-marketing, corporate goliath should be slain before the eyes of the Lord before it consumes it's hosts.

No need to "slay" anything; I think people will learn (intuitively) how to counter the things you've pointed out. Personally, I've learned that a FAKE or inflated Christianity, is worse than not ever knowing of it at all.

I had a conversation recently with the pastor of my Mom's church (Yes, this atheists Mom works as a church librarian in her retirement - what do you think of them apples!) about a similar topic - which I ended with a similar statement. The pastor's answer was "you are right, Chris, it is an embarrassment".

Worse, for many it has become a "discouragement".

Now that wasn't too tough was it? (Then again, this is a liberal church (UCC) and he is a liberal, do-gooder, commie who drives a Prius - go figure!)

Consciencious, it seems. Jesus himself would not likely do well amongst the religious right-wingers of today either.

-Mel-

[melikio]

But is love anything more than a physical experience? Can your feelings of love be chemically altered? Can I, say, make you no longer in love someone by inserting an electrode into a certain portion of your brain? Can I make you incabable of love by altering your brain chemistry? Can I damage your brain in a certain way so that you express love for everyone you meet?

I realize we can physically alter the human mind; still, it seems that any such alteration leaves a person somewhat less than whole. In medicine and therapy, because it is often the better option.

However, what I'm referring to goes beyond (far beyond) the "feelings" or emotions associated with the "love" many know.

There is a kind of love that steps beyond "feelings"; a "love" associated with what is more "spiritual" (enduring), has these qualities:

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. [http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... version=31]

Now admittedly, it takes some "faith" to see that kind of love through to the end; it's not just about feeling. But I have seen adherence to such principles improve the outlook and lives of many; more than the books in a store.

When I use the term "love", I am rarely just talking about how one feels; I'm usually referring to the "effect" of a given person as a whole (not merely a single act).

-Mel-

[melikio]

I have called myself a smarty-pants many times. People who know me in person don't think I'm an a-hole but it is certainly possible. I rather love sarcasm. Does my smarty-pantsness shallow the depth of my thought?

Please don't misunderstand me, I was in no way referring to you per se; I was referring to a range of people I've encountered over time in my life. And yes, I'm sure I've been an arrogant a-hole at times also.

Today, many religious people are not so willing to be critical of themselves, they believe what they will and damn all others. That's nothing new, but we should be willing to recognize our own faults; not to beat ourselves up, but to improve upon being human beings. Really, I don't think God is asking anymore than that.

So yes, LOVE involves feelings (emotion), but love administered with a spiritual flair posseses consistency and exudes enduring qualities. It is what one chooses to DO, rather than merely experience as a "feeling". And the best example I have of such love is Jesus Christ (certainly not other human beings I know). Sure, I've encountered many very loving people (and I'm thankful to no end); but THE example/model for me is Jesus Christ. And that's about as religious as it gets for me; love is the standard I AIM for in my life; all other things are secondary (in the religious sense).

How I got there is a very LONG story; but let me say that I went through some things that tested everything I was (including my "religious" beliefs).

-Mel-

[kman]

For several days I made a very honest attempt to experience being a Christian. During that time I spent several hours in our local Christian bookstore. My preconceptions about the contents of that store were shattered when I found it was not a store of hope, peace, calm and goodwill. I can only describe it as a house of horror and a bizarre form of pornography.
Book after book after book concerning the apocalypse, about who will burn in hell, about what hell torture is like, graphic depictions of suffering and pain. Some were even devoted to talking about why God thinks war can sometimes be a good thing. (I'm not kidding!) There was an incredible amount devoted to our "enemies" and violence and God's punishments. I was repulsed.
There were also many, many, many books about sex: The role of sex in marriage, how to make sex in your marriage better, how God views sex, how men should manage there lust, what teenage girls can and cannot do with their privates, how teenage boys can keep their virginity and what God thinks about masturbation. Of course there were plenty of the obligatory gays and why they are doomed to eternal hellfire and methods for overcoming their gay lifestyle. Some books even combined the sexual and violence when talking about gays. It was truly bizarre and unsettling.
And then, of course there are the sexualized drawings of Jesus - even in the children's books.
And, of course, ironically there were books about "family values" and how terribly sexualized our culture has become.
The sheer volume of this material along with it's prominent display was shocking.


Are fundamentalist Christians obsessed with sex and violence?
I think it would be immoral to bring my child in there and expose him to all that. Am I right?

I think that maybe you took offense at something that was not meant to be offensive. Alot of the "sex" books are for marriages that are falling apart because of a lack of a physical intimacy. They give ideas to help the love life of a marriage better and thus help the marriage. As for the books on hell, etc, maybe to you they were too graphic, but possibly the authors of those books are very passionate about their writings and maybe over wrote some things to try and stress points here and there about things that happened in the Bible to help us or protect us, etc. I was raised in a very Christian household but didn't know a thing abou sex until I was 18 and had moved out. Sex is definitely not a common household word. But there is nothing wrong with sex as long as it is in a marriage. Pre-marital sex is wrong and is not to be condoned. But sex within a marriage is applauded. It is our job to reproduce and replenish the earth. God made sex enjoyable so we would want to do it. That is why it is better for us to be married before we have sex. We are to save our virginity for our wedding night and give it as a special gift to our new spouse. Plus it is sooooo much healthier for the human race if we stuck with just one peson to have sex with the rest of our life. STD's would be a lot less prevalent that's for sure. Of course, homosexuality also does not help the STD thing, but that is a different conversation.

[Confused]

For several days I made a very honest attempt to experience being a Christian. During that time I spent several hours in our local Christian bookstore. My preconceptions about the contents of that store were shattered when I found it was not a store of hope, peace, calm and goodwill. I can only describe it as a house of horror and a bizarre form of pornography.
Book after book after book concerning the apocalypse, about who will burn in hell, about what hell torture is like, graphic depictions of suffering and pain. Some were even devoted to talking about why God thinks war can sometimes be a good thing. (I'm not kidding!) There was an incredible amount devoted to our "enemies" and violence and God's punishments. I was repulsed.
There were also many, many, many books about sex: The role of sex in marriage, how to make sex in your marriage better, how God views sex, how men should manage there lust, what teenage girls can and cannot do with their privates, how teenage boys can keep their virginity and what God thinks about masturbation. Of course there were plenty of the obligatory gays and why they are doomed to eternal hellfire and methods for overcoming their gay lifestyle. Some books even combined the sexual and violence when talking about gays. It was truly bizarre and unsettling.
And then, of course there are the sexualized drawings of Jesus - even in the children's books.
And, of course, ironically there were books about "family values" and how terribly sexualized our culture has become.
The sheer volume of this material along with it's prominent display was shocking.


Are fundamentalist Christians obsessed with sex and violence?
I think it would be immoral to bring my child in there and expose him to all that. Am I right?

I think that maybe you took offense at something that was not meant to be offensive. Alot of the "sex" books are for marriages that are falling apart because of a lack of a physical intimacy. They give ideas to help the love life of a marriage better and thus help the marriage. As for the books on hell, etc, maybe to you they were too graphic, but possibly the authors of those books are very passionate about their writings and maybe over wrote some things to try and stress points here and there about things that happened in the Bible to help us or protect us, etc. I was raised in a very Christian household but didn't know a thing abou sex until I was 18 and had moved out. Sex is definitely not a common household word. But there is nothing wrong with sex as long as it is in a marriage. Pre-marital sex is wrong and is not to be condoned. But sex within a marriage is applauded. It is our job to reproduce and replenish the earth. God made sex enjoyable so we would want to do it. That is why it is better for us to be married before we have sex. We are to save our virginity for our wedding night and give it as a special gift to our new spouse. Plus it is sooooo much healthier for the human race if we stuck with just one peson to have sex with the rest of our life. STD's would be a lot less prevalent that's for sure. Of course, homosexuality also does not help the STD thing, but that is a different conversation.

Actually, I think you should take a look at the thread of "Is premarital sex a sin" thread. I don't think anyone has established that it is a sin. I don't even think is has been established as wrong. As a matter of fact, I do believe that a couple can have premarital sex and if the father forbids the marriage, the man pays a virgin price to the father and moves on his merry little way.. And I do believe that a couple engaged can have premarital sex, so long as they are engaged. In regards to saving yourselve until the wedding night. What happens if you find you are sexually incompatible? Boy that would be lame huh. And prostitutes existed all throughout life, so STD's have always been prevalent. But tell me, where did the first STD come from? Did some prostitute just invent it and pass it along to a man having an affair on his wife and this spread it worldwide? Or was it a punishment from God. In regards to you homosexuality and STD thing, if you are in any way implying that because of homosexuals, STD's have increased in any way, shape or form then I would really like to hear your rationale. Of course I would like to hear you sources as well. Can't expect someone as confused as myself to take the word of a stranger.

Now, in regards to are all Christians obsessed with sex and violence, I would have to say no, that would be mostly the Bible. I don't think they preach much about sex in the churches or they would have to give their sermons some sort of rating like PG, PG 13, R, MA, etc..

[Abiele777]

For several days I made a very honest attempt to experience being a Christian.

Based upon what you wrote, yours was not an honest effort at all.

Perhaps there is more that would convince me otherwise:

Did you earnesty seek God?

Did you sincerely ask Him to reveal Himself to you?

Did you ask God to reveal His plan for your life and future?

How many hours did you spend reading the OT and how many hours the NT?

How many hours did you spend in prayer?

And reading your alleged bookstore experience, it is clear that you came to mock, and ridicule, and laugh in God's face. Your words leave no doubt that you despise Christians and Christianity.

Are fundamentalist Christians obsessed with sex and violence?

If any are, certainly no more than you are. If Christians are obsessed with sex in the manner you claim, I'm sure they would choose a porno shop or porn on the internet over a Christian Book Store. Wouldn't YOU?

From my many decades of going to Christian Bookstores, I find that the majority of Christians who go to such stores are looking to be a better father, a better mother, a better steward of their money or time, a better neighbor, seeking better understanding of God's word and/or a closer relationship with God.

I think it would be immoral to bring my child in there and expose him to all that. Am I right?

Hey man, do what is right for you, the cat's in the cradle and all that stuff, I'm sure your kid will be just like you, the kid will grow up to be just like you.

[kman]

Even so, since the OP focused upon Christians being "obsessed" with sex and/or violence,

Perhaps I should elaborate:
My OP was a product of my surprise. I really expected to see a Mayberry/God loves you/Don't do drugs/Brush your teeth/Pray each night vibe. There was indeed plenty of that - lots and lots of that. But the prevalence of sex, the incredible volume of anger and violence and even the occasional sexual violence not only surprised me, it actually frightened me.
I could not help but think: "THIS is what they are teaching each other. THIS is what they are surrounding themselves with. This is the world they have created for themselves. What a dark, angry, scary world. So many bad dreams, fears and threats candy-coated with a multitude of pastoral scenes and smiling faces with capped teeth. And although it is printed in every single article, there is very little love and forgiveness here." That is how I felt right before I left.
While it is obviously hypocritical to have your left hand waving a bible shouting at the progressive-liberal-do-gooder-pervert-commies while your right arm is loaded up with books on violence and discussions of sex, in the end, it is all about marketing. It is all about appealing to the parts within you that you love to hate - and hate in others. It is a violent, angry, sex-food intended to feed the colossal Christian marketing machine. Gobble gobble gobble. It's all about sales. Fear and sex move product off shelves no matter who you are selling to or what product you are selling.

---------------
Look, the world is about to end! God likes WAR!! Gay people are on the rampage with their gaymaker guns. Kill, Kill Kill! Sell, Sell Sell!
----------------

I have brought up the sexy Jesus topic numerous times in various threads and have yet to find a good accounting for it other than perhaps racial vanity. I have yet to see a Jesus doll that resembles a person of that region and time. (and yes, there has been much study of this) Nor have I seen a movie Jesus or a story Jesus or any other Jesus - including in children's books - that depict him as anything other than European and having perfectly clean, white teeth, perfectly dressed, tall, handsome, long hair, long eyelashes etc... He is always depicted as "appealing". But why? Why make him visually "appealing"? Do his words not cut it? Is his message not strong enough? What do you think your teenage daughter or your gay-lifestyle-loving-dabbling-in-weed-God-hating son think when they see this beautiful, clean, strong, tall handsome man?
"Hmmm, I wonder what is under that robe?"

If I were Christian, I would be honest and admit what I am pointing out was an embarrassment to my faith. I would say it was something that should be stopped. This giant mega-marketing, corporate goliath should be slain before the eyes of the Lord before it consumes it's hosts.
I had a conversation recently with the pastor of my Mom's church (Yes, this atheists Mom works as a church librarian in her retirement - what do you think of them apples!) about a similar topic - which I ended with a similar statement. The pastor's answer was "you are right, Chris, it is an embarrassment".
Now that wasn't too tough was it? (Then again, this is a liberal church (UCC) and he is a liberal, do-gooder, commie who drives a Prius - go figure!)

Just for the record, the Bible does state that Jesus was not a sexually attractive man. He was rather plain. So these different pictures of Jesus depicting him as a sexy man is not Biblical.