Religion is "man-made" is like saying universe is

[paarsurrey1]

Revealed-Religion is "man-made" is like saying universe is "man-made", is it so?

Regards

[benchwarmer]

Revealed-Religion is "man-made" is like saying universe is "man-made", is it so?

Regards

No, it's not so.

Clearly religion is man made. Even if there is a god, the codifying of religious dogma and spreading it from person to person is clearly man made since men do it. Unless you think Bibles drop from the sky, churches grow spontaneously out of the ground, or sermons emanate from thin air.

Many religions have been 'revealed'. You seem to think the one you grew up in or found as an adult is 'special'. Given this is the Science and Religion section, can we expect you to produce any evidence, or will you just be essentially preaching?

Why doesn't one think that universe is man-made, please?

Regards

Because we observe no men making universes and men are a recent product of the universe. The universe is approximately 13.8 billion years old and modern humans only approx 200,000 years old.

We do however observe men making religions. All the time.

What should we go with? What we actually observe or 'take it on faith' that some particular set of tales is 'the truth'?

How did one observe events happened 13.8 billion years ago, please?

Regards

I think perhaps you've missed my points or misunderstood. I never claimed that we did observe what happened 13.8 billion years ago. I merely claimed we have not observed any men capable of creating universes. Thus, we have no reason to believe they can. In addition, men are much younger than the universe based on our actual observations (i.e. fossils of humanoids, etc and carbon dating those fossils).

How do we know how old the universe is? Observation of the current universe and understanding things like the speed of light, speed of other stars, etc. When you look up at the night sky, you are actually looking into the past (based on the speed of light). We also observe the universe is expanding and can work backwards.

Perhaps this might be helpful: https://www.space.com/24054-how-old-is- ... verse.html

Essentially, the knowledge we have accumulated in biology and cosmology is based on observed phenomena, not reading random tales from ancient story tellers.

[marco]

How did one observe events happened 13.8 billion years ago, please?

Your proposal, paarsurrey, is the one that requires tough back-up. No one has heard a Tyrannosaurus rex but we believe they lived about 70 million years ago, give or take a few million.

Who observed God giving man religion? You are opposing well-researched material with fairy tales. Worse still, you don't expand on what you proclaim. We can all make provocative statements - backing them up takes work and skill. Try it. Go well.

[paarsurrey1]

How did one observe events happened 13.8 billion years ago, please?

Your proposal, paarsurrey, is the one that requires tough back-up. No one has heard a Tyrannosaurus rex but we believe they lived about 70 million years ago, give or take a few million.

So it is one's profound belief/faith or trust in something/s or someone/s that one believes that Tyrannosaurus rex lived about 70 million years ago. Right, please?

Regards

[marco]

How did one observe events happened 13.8 billion years ago, please?

Your proposal, paarsurrey, is the one that requires tough back-up. No one has heard a Tyrannosaurus rex but we believe they lived about 70 million years ago, give or take a few million.

So it is one's profound belief/faith or trust in something/s or someone/s that one believes that Tyrannosaurus rex lived about 70 million years ago. Right, please?

Regards

Yep. But not just their spoken word; there's a lot of intelligent work behind it. Our civilisation depends on believing in our scientists and as proof we see their inventions actually work.

On the other hand, have you observed Allah? Is it your profound belief that he gave Muhammad the Quran? I wonder who is on thinner ice. Best wishes.

[paarsurrey1]

Revealed-Religion is man-made is not a fact. Is it? Those who believe or have faith or trust that Revealed-Religion is man-made may kindly let us have their own understanding* of the word "fact" and then give their arguments/reasons if they have any. Right, please?

*Please don't quote from a lexicon/dictionary.

Regards

[benchwarmer]

How did one observe events happened 13.8 billion years ago, please?

Your proposal, paarsurrey, is the one that requires tough back-up. No one has heard a Tyrannosaurus rex but we believe they lived about 70 million years ago, give or take a few million.

So it is one's profound belief/faith or trust in something/s or someone/s that one believes that Tyrannosaurus rex lived about 70 million years ago. Right, please?

Regards

Yes, at least until you decide you want to look into the matter yourself. Which you can if you desire.

Step 1: Visit a natural history museum and get a look for yourself at the bones of a T. Rex.

Step 2: Do some research on carbon dating, and paleontology. Find other T. Rex bones and compare.

At this point, you have accessed what other people (many other people) have accumulated so far. Still think it might be a scam?

Step 3: Take the appropriate courses and/or join the appropriate expeditions to go find fossils yourself. Learn how to date fossils yourself so you can begin to trust what other scientists are presenting.

Still think it's a scam?

Step 4: Find your own T. Rex fossil and date it.

You'll note that there is an increasing difficulty here, but it's not impossible. People dedicate their lives to this field and have their results cross checked by others in the same field. Once you understand how the process works, you would have to think there was a mass, worldwide conspiracy in place to fool everyone that T. Rexs existed and are as old as claimed to be.

Can you do the same thing with your 'true religion'? Can we go find a god writing down your favorite scripture? Or will we only find printing presses churning out what has been written in the past? Can we find evidence that a god has ever written down or caused to be written down something? If you answered yes to that last one, can you show it wasn't just the musings of man? Do you have evidence that shows one way or the other?

[benchwarmer]

Revealed-Religion is man-made is not a fact. Is it? Those who believe or have faith or trust that Revealed-Religion is man-made may kindly let us have their own understanding* of the word "fact" and then give their arguments/reasons if they have any. Right, please?

*Please don't quote from a lexicon/dictionary.

Regards

I'm sorry, but you want us to explain what 'fact' means and not use a dictionary? i.e. you want us to make something up? I'll leave that to people who like making things up - like revealed religions.

Dictionaries exist for a reason. The let us have a common understanding of what words mean. If we can freely make up meanings of words, then I hereby give my definition of 'revealed religion': mumbo jumbo

[marco]

Revealed-Religion is man-made is not a fact. Is it? Those who believe or have faith or trust that Revealed-Religion is man-made may kindly let us have their own understanding* of the word "fact" and then give their arguments/reasons if they have any. Right, please?

*Please don't quote from a lexicon/dictionary.

Regards

Fact comes from the Latin verb facere, the supine part of which is factum, and it originally meant something done or made. It means something that is true. If there is any debate about the truth of something then it is NOT a fact.

"Religion is man made " is a fact. There are umpteen religions, some of which are demonstrably nonsensical. They are groupings of people who agree to a particular set of beliefs, superstitions, customs or martial arts. Fact has nothing to do with it. The world has seen many religions come and go.

You are immeasurably lucky that your religion is apparently unique in its purity of truth: it is still a religion. The grain of truth in it may well have come from heaven. The political organisation that builds mosques is a man-made affair.... like the others that build synagogues, cathedrals and churches.

May I ask you: Who do you think made religion, if not man? Or am I about to generate several surahs?

[paarsurrey1]

Revealed-Religion is man-made is not a fact. Is it? Those who believe or have faith or trust that Revealed-Religion is man-made may kindly let us have their own understanding* of the word "fact" and then give their arguments/reasons if they have any. Right, please?

*Please don't quote from a lexicon/dictionary.

Regards

I'm sorry, but you want us to explain what 'fact' means and not use a dictionary? i.e. you want us to make something up? I'll leave that to people who like making things up - like revealed religions.

Dictionaries exist for a reason. The let us have a common understanding of what words mean. If we can freely make up meanings of words, then I hereby give my definition of 'revealed religion': mumbo jumbo

Words have several meanings and usages. Don't they? When one gives one's own understanding, it becomes easy to discuss further . It harms nobody, later one could change the expression if one notices that one made a mistake.
Language existed and lexicons/dictionaries were compiled much later. Right, please?

Regards

[H.sapiens]

Revealed-Religion is "man-made" is like saying universe is "man-made", is it so?

Regards

No, it's not so.

Clearly religion is man made. Even if there is a god, the codifying of religious dogma and spreading it from person to person is clearly man made since men do it. Unless you think Bibles drop from the sky, churches grow spontaneously out of the ground, or sermons emanate from thin air.

Many religions have been 'revealed'. You seem to think the one you grew up in or found as an adult is 'special'. Given this is the Science and Religion section, can we expect you to produce any evidence, or will you just be essentially preaching?

Why doesn't one think that universe is man-made, please?

Regards

Because we observe no men making universes and men are a recent product of the universe. The universe is approximately 13.8 billion years old and modern humans only approx 200,000 years old.

We do however observe men making religions. All the time.

What should we go with? What we actually observe or 'take it on faith' that some particular set of tales is 'the truth'?

How did one observe events happened 13.8 billion years ago, please?

Regards

You are now on an expedition into petulant sophistry, please stop wasting everyone's time.