Can we find good in God?

[marco]

I cannot see much in the OT God beyond violence and anger. He may have removed the splinter from someone's foot but the general picture, for me, is one of unremitting terror, except when he is addressing a favourite human. For example, what friend would ask a father to kill his son?

We can all find examples of savagery, brutality, jealousy, spite ,,, but since it is Christmas, can we try to find examples where Jehovah is unambiguously kind?

Or is Jehovah simply beyond redemption?

[Willum]

[Replying to tam]

Hi Tam, if you love me, and keep my Sabbath holy, I will give you one million dollars, make it three, some time in the future.
It may be so far I the future when a dollar isn’t worth anything, or three thousand years after now, but I promise. Make it the exact same “soon� as is Jesus return.
What do you say?

[tam]

[Replying to tam]

Hi Tam, if you love me, and keep my Sabbath holy, I will give you one million dollars, make it three, some time in the future.
It may be so far I the future when a dollar isn’t worth anything, or three thousand years after now, but I promise. Make it the exact same “soon� as is Jesus return.
What do you say?

I say you're off topic (as far as I can tell).

I also say that if I did not "love you or keep your Sabbath holy', then I would have no right to expect one or three million dollars at any time in the future, and certainly no right to complain for not receiving it.


Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to tam]

Hi Tam, if you love me, and keep my Sabbath holy, I will give you one million dollars, make it three, some time in the future.
It may be so far I the future when a dollar isn’t worth anything, or three thousand years after now, but I promise. Make it the exact same “soon� as is Jesus return.
What do you say?

I say you're off topic (as far as I can tell).

I also say that if I did not "love you or keep your Sabbath holy', then I would have no right to expect one or three million dollars at any time in the future, and certainly no right to complain for not receiving it.


Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Does this mean Jesus's return can be delayed, nay, prevented by just one person not keeping the Sabbath/loving Christ?

[tam]

[Replying to tam]

Hi Tam, if you love me, and keep my Sabbath holy, I will give you one million dollars, make it three, some time in the future.
It may be so far I the future when a dollar isn’t worth anything, or three thousand years after now, but I promise. Make it the exact same “soon� as is Jesus return.
What do you say?

I say you're off topic (as far as I can tell).

I also say that if I did not "love you or keep your Sabbath holy', then I would have no right to expect one or three million dollars at any time in the future, and certainly no right to complain for not receiving it.


Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Does this mean Jesus's return can be delayed, nay, prevented by just one person not keeping the Sabbath/loving Christ?

No, of course not. But you are going to have to ask Willum to clarify if that is what he meant. My point, from earlier in Isaiah 58, is that if a promise is made to some people... and that promise hinges upon those people doing certain things... then if those people do not do those things, they are not owed anything that was promised.


IF you do this... THEN I will do this.



Other than that, I am not sure what point Willum was making, which is why I think he is off-topic.


Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 54 by tam]

No, of course not. But you are going to have to ask Willum to clarify if that is what he meant. My point, from earlier in Isaiah 58, is that if a promise is made to some people... and that promise hinges upon those people doing certain things... then if those people do not do those things, they are not owed anything that was promised.


IF you do this... THEN I will do this.

Then by all accounts, Jesus should have returned already! There's you, and plenty of other Christians throughout the years, doing exactly what Christ wanted...and yet for some reason Jesus hasn't come back?
The only thing I can see from this little exchange is that it means that Jesus makes a promise to you and others, and that even though you and others are keeping your end, he's not going to follow through because people that are not you aren't doing so.

TL;DR - Jesus is not keeping his promise to you because of people that are not you.

[tam]

[Replying to post 54 by tam]

No, of course not. But you are going to have to ask Willum to clarify if that is what he meant. My point, from earlier in Isaiah 58, is that if a promise is made to some people... and that promise hinges upon those people doing certain things... then if those people do not do those things, they are not owed anything that was promised.


IF you do this... THEN I will do this.

Then by all accounts, Jesus should have returned already! There's you, and plenty of other Christians throughout the years, doing exactly what Christ wanted...and yet for some reason Jesus hasn't come back?
The only thing I can see from this little exchange is that it means that Jesus makes a promise to you and others, and that even though you and others are keeping your end, he's not going to follow through because people that are not you aren't doing so.

TL;DR - Jesus is not keeping his promise to you because of people that are not you.

Okay, you and Willum are on some other topic that has nothing to do with anything I have said. This thread is about God, as shown by the OT. I do not know how (or why) you two are making the connection from Isaiah 58 to 'Christ should have returned before now'.


On top of that, there is no mention of a deadline in Willum's post (which stated simply 'some time in the future'). Nor is there a mention of those promises from Isaiah being fulfilled in a future time, rather than right then and there.

I urge you both to go back and re-read.

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammh

[tam]

So that there is no misunderstanding, I am going to respond also to the content of your comment, Rik, if that is okay.

Then by all accounts, Jesus should have returned already! There's you, and plenty of other Christians throughout the years, doing exactly what Christ wanted...and yet for some reason Jesus hasn't come back?
The only thing I can see from this little exchange is that it means that Jesus makes a promise to you and others, and that even though you and others are keeping your end, he's not going to follow through because people that are not you aren't doing so.

Christ never said 'as soon as you do what I want you to do, I will return.'


That day and hour have been set by the Father. It is a set time based upon His wisdom and plan.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[William]

[Replying to post 43 by marco]

No I don't see. We are discussing Yahweh not the best restaurants in town. You are simply diverting the discussion from Yahweh to a topic of your choice.

On the contrary. I was saying that one of the actions of this GOD was to create this planet and in that, we might be able to find some redeeming features which you think are apparently missing from the attributes of the GOD in question.

That is why I questioned you on your cherry picking the apparent bad things while ignoring any good things - so perhaps you see no good things re life on earth.

You are getting close to answering the OP. I offered my view on Yahweh and disclosed that I see him as lacking in good qualities. I called for evidence from the OT that would contradict my view. I would welcome that. At the moment I seem to be discussing some variant of pantheism in which Yahweh has been given the court jester's part.

Well when you sort your position out in relation to that, get back to me. If life is just one big evil thing to you, then so be it.

If not, then my argument stands.

[marco]

I was saying that one of the actions of this GOD was to create this planet and in that, we might be able to find some redeeming features which you think are apparently missing from the attributes of the GOD in question.

That is why I questioned you on your cherry picking the apparent bad things while ignoring any good things - so perhaps you see no good things re life on earth.

I re-read my OP to see to what extent I am responsible for your apparent misunderstanding but I cannot attach any blame to myself. I wanted examples from the OT to show that the character there depicted acted generously in his dealings with humans. The primal act of creating volcanoes, rivers, hurricanes, rainbows and tectonic faults - then inventing death - is scene setting.

If life is just one big evil thing to you, then so be it.

So you are anachronistically quoting fine wine, ice cream, holidays abroad, excellent films and so on as benefits the Biblical Yahweh showered on the old nomads. You've just misunderstood the OP but it matters little. Enjoy the Eden you suppose we possess and Ill struggle with the snake in my garden.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 56 by tam]

Sorry about going off topic, but honestly, I post so many topics where I spend the first three pages just trying to keep the OP on topic, and taking what you said did give you an excellent reveal, which you rather ignored.

I am a real provable person. Jesus and God's existence is lost in ambiguity and logic, at best. You should have better reason to accept my promise, and to stay on topic, goodness, than God's.

And yet whose (good) promise do you defend?

The one from an entity of unprovable existence with an unprovable promise.

I can at least re-affirm my promise to you ad infinitum, God can not.