The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[dianaiad]

I am often curious as to how others can use the bible as 'spiritual' evidence, or of evidence of any sort, without knowing, or explaining, why they think it is "spiritual evidence."

The bible is the result of God's spirit and is the book of spiritual truth, so spiritually speaking it is the source of all spiritual evidence, ie the source by which all spiritual people can "set things straight" . It's not a book of human thinking, indeed for fleshly people most of what is in it is "foolishness" but it is sufficient for the man or woman of faith. Hope that helps a little.

What about you, I'm curious as to how you would answer the same questions. Would you share? (no problem if its too personal and you would rather not)

Peace,

JW

Your answer is very typical of what I encounter, and while I certainly respect your belief that the Bible is indeed a 'book of spiritual truth,' I notice that you simply declare that it is so without telling me why you think so.

I do share your belief that the Bible is a 'book of spiritual truth,' BTW, but I know WHY I do. What I would like to know is why you do. What I usually get....and you have given me a variation of that...is the very circular idea:

The Bible is the word of God because
It says it is.

There are many books that claim to be God's word and books of spiritual truth. How do you know which ones actually are?

...and I'll be happy to share WHY I believe that the Bible contains the word of God and is thus a good "primary source" for spiritual truth, but experience has shown me that as soon as I do that, the topic changes drastically. So, first, why do you think so?

Thanks.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 389 by dianaiad]

Are you asking why I think the bible is God's word?

[Checkpoint]

How was this revealed to you?

How do you know it came from God?

What spiritual evidence was given as to its claim and its source?

How was this revealed to you? By holy spirit

How do you know it came from God? The same way you do

What spiritual evidence was given as to its claim and its source? The bible

Hmm.

Your brief answers come across as circular thinking that actually tell me nothing.

They lack the specifics requested.

As they stand, I could use them to confirm my point of view of the significance of 1914.

[dianaiad]

[Replying to post 389 by dianaiad]

Are you asking why I think the bible is God's word?

That is precisely what I am asking, yes.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 389 by dianaiad]

Are you asking why I think the bible is God's word?

That is precisely what I am asking, yes.

Okay well I'm not comfortable derailing the thread to discuss that question; the topic of discussion is the Kingdom (one of the themes in the bible) not the authenticity of the bible itself - I thought you were asking about the validity of my particular interpretation rather than the credentials of the book being interpreted....

I'll link you to one of my previous answers to a similar question and will take a look if you choose to start a new thread on the topic.


Is the bible the word of God?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 255#840255

[dianaiad]

[Replying to post 389 by dianaiad]

Are you asking why I think the bible is God's word?

That is precisely what I am asking, yes.

Okay well I'm not comfortable derailing the thread to discuss that question; the topic of discussion is the Kingdom (one of the themes in the bible) not the authenticity of the bible itself - I thought you were asking about the validity of my particular interpretation rather than the credentials of the book being interpreted....

I'll link you to one of my previous answers to a similar question and will take a look if you choose to start a new thread on the topic.


Is the bible the word of God?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 255#840255

Thank you for the link.

I read your response, and you have written some interesting things. I will, perhaps, begin another thread in a different subforum; THIS one assumes that the Bible IS authoritative.

I have no problem with that, btw. I do think it is.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 366 by onewithhim]

I believe that Jesus was referring to the time after Armageddon when God's will will be done as it is in heaven---that is, completely, with no aberrations. That is when the Kingdom can truly be said to have come.

According to that definition, this can only be after the millennium.

See Revelation 20:1-3; 7-9.

True, it will be at the very end of the Millennium that humans will have achieved complete perfection. But it will be DURING the Millennium that the dead will come back and the earth brought back to its pristine state, as created by God in the beginning. (What do you think the Millennium will be for?)

Thanks for these exchanges.

The dead "come back", not during but "at the very end of the Millennium".

See Revelation 20:11-15.

I am familiar with the verses.

What does this actually mean? "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended."

Does it have to mean they were not resurrected until the thousand years were ended?

Yes it does, because that is what is stated.

Why not this?.......

Verse 4 spoke of the anointed co-rulers with Christ, and that they "came to life" before they started their rule. That is, God gave them everlasting life before the Millennial Reign. Then verse 5 refers to those that would be resurrected to the Earth (the rest of the dead). I have already said that they would be gradually reaching perfection during those thousand years, because that is what the thousand years is for, mainly. So they wouldn't be given a clean bill of health, so to speak, until they become perfect and then are tested by Satan that last time, as mentioned in verses 7 and 8. The ones who do not go with Satan will be given the prize of eternal life. That is what it means when it says that they "did not come to life" until the end of the thousand years. The would come to life, or, be given eternal life, the real life, after their stand against Satan, after the Millennial Reign.

Disciples of Christ are encouraged to "safely treasure up for themselves a fine foundation for the future, to get a firm hold on the REAL life." (I Timothy 6:19) That is the "life" that Revelation 20:5 and 11-15 talks about. For us, the everlasting life that Jesus gave up his earthly life for.

No, not all that, because it is mostly other than what Revelation 20 tells us, and is thus adding to scripture.

Please tell me why my take on Revelation 20 is "other than" what you say Revelation 20 tells us.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 389 by dianaiad]

Why don't you tell us why you think the Bible is God's Word.

[dianaiad]

[Replying to post 389 by dianaiad]

Why don't you tell us why you think the Bible is God's Word.

I have read it, studied it, but most of all, I have prayed and asked God if it is His word and I have received an answer from Him, through the Holy Ghost, that satisfies me.

It's very personal, very subjective....and not circular. It allows me to take the Bible as it is, and not have to reconcile all the possible contradictions/problems/mistranslations that may be in it. I don't have to look for archeological proof of things that cannot be proven archeologically, and I don't have to prove anything to anybody.

Basically, I went to the One Who inspired and gave revelation to the folks who wrote it. You know, like reading a scientific journal and, when one is confused by it, asking the writer to explain?

I'm not asking anybody else to believe me about this, mind you.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 389 by dianaiad]

Why don't you tell us why you think the Bible is God's Word.

I have read it, studied it, but most of all, I have prayed and asked God if it is His word and I have received an answer from Him, through the Holy Ghost, that satisfies me.

It's very personal, very subjective....and not circular. It allows me to take the Bible as it is, and not have to reconcile all the possible contradictions/problems/mistranslations that may be in it. I don't have to look for archeological proof of things that cannot be proven archeologically, and I don't have to prove anything to anybody.

Basically, I went to the One Who inspired and gave revelation to the folks who wrote it. You know, like reading a scientific journal and, when one is confused by it, asking the writer to explain?

I'm not asking anybody else to believe me about this, mind you.

I have never asked Him if it is His word. But, could not an omnipotent being make sure His word got out? Or would He give it to us and see how we deal with it? Truly, IDK. But, I know He is real and the scriptures provide an amazing amount of revelation.

We are made to questions things, so why wouldn't we? And if poor translations or deceptions exist, why wouldn't we eliminate them?

To me, its the whole seek ye first the kingdom of God, thing. You have to seek to find. You have to knock to be let in. You have to ask, for it to be given unto you. Etc.