Is Ridding The World of Religion The Answer

[Realworldjack]

There is a current thread on this site, that poses that we, "should put God aside for a few years." Once this is done, we would then turn our attention to the poor, and needy. The question then becomes, "Would we have a better world?"

Well, I cannot speak for any other religion in the world, but as a Christian, I would like to ask, does Christianity have anything at all to do with, and, or, does it ever promise to produce a, "better world?"

In other words, is it the objective of Christianity to produce better behaving people, in order to produce a better world?

Next, are we under the impression, that if there was no religion, and no belief in any sort of god, that this would produce a better world?

If we were to be able to rid the world of any sort of religion, would this rid the world of greed, selfishness, envy, strife, jealousy, bigotry, warfare, etc.? Even if it may rid the world less of these things, would it really rid it enough to even notice? Do we really believe, that it is simply religion that produces these things in us?

Or, do we all understand, that whether we hold some sort of belief in a god or not, that we are all guilty of these sort of things listed above, and that we all struggle against them?

My point is, as a Christian, I am not under the impression that, if all in the world were Christians, this would remedy our situation.

With this being said, is there anyone under the impression that if we could rid the world of any sort of religion, that this would remedy our situation, and be our salvation?

[Tired of the Nonsense]

There is a current thread on this site, that poses that we, "should put God aside for a few years." Once this is done, we would then turn our attention to the poor, and needy. The question then becomes, "Would we have a better world?"

Well, I cannot speak for any other religion in the world, but as a Christian, I would like to ask, does Christianity have anything at all to do with, and, or, does it ever promise to produce a, "better world?"

In other words, is it the objective of Christianity to produce better behaving people, in order to produce a better world?

Next, are we under the impression, that if there was no religion, and no belief in any sort of god, that this would produce a better world?

If we were to be able to rid the world of any sort of religion, would this rid the world of greed, selfishness, envy, strife, jealousy, bigotry, warfare, etc.? Even if it may rid the world less of these things, would it really rid it enough to even notice? Do we really believe, that it is simply religion that produces these things in us?

Or, do we all understand, that whether we hold some sort of belief in a god or not, that we are all guilty of these sort of things listed above, and that we all struggle against them?

My point is, as a Christian, I am not under the impression that, if all in the world were Christians, this would remedy our situation.

With this being said, is there anyone under the impression that if we could rid the world of any sort of religion, that this would remedy our situation, and be our salvation?

What was the question? Humans are not going to "get rid" of religion. If religion passes away it will be because it no longer serves a purpose. Religion serves no purpose in my life. As incomprehensible as that may be to a religious person, people like me are rapidly becoming mainstream.

[Willum]

I see it two ways:
1. If there is a being who wants us to believe, then humanity pish-poshng it would surely inspire some action by it.
2. Or the more likely, man starting to take responsibility for it's own actions and discover what it is like not to blame a Jungian imaginary friend for their ails.

It will certainly be an adjustment that will lead to a new kind of mankind that can survive without a 'big father' in the sky looking out for them.

[The Tanager]

I do not think that getting rid of religion would produce a better world. Many studies (which you must always take with a grain of salt, of course) imply the opposite would be true, in that (proportionately) religious folk are more charitable than non-religious folk. But selfishness, greed, etc. is a human problem, not of any particular philosophy. And (probably) every philosophy has very moral people in it.

While I do not think that it is the primary objective of Christianity to just produce better behaving people, I do think that better behaving people is a necessary result of the primary objective of Christianity (bringing people into a trusting relationship with God). I do not think it is an immediate result. I also do not think it is a complete result in each individual in this phase of life.

[Realworldjack]

There is a current thread on this site, that poses that we, "should put God aside for a few years." Once this is done, we would then turn our attention to the poor, and needy. The question then becomes, "Would we have a better world?"

Well, I cannot speak for any other religion in the world, but as a Christian, I would like to ask, does Christianity have anything at all to do with, and, or, does it ever promise to produce a, "better world?"

In other words, is it the objective of Christianity to produce better behaving people, in order to produce a better world?

Next, are we under the impression, that if there was no religion, and no belief in any sort of god, that this would produce a better world?

If we were to be able to rid the world of any sort of religion, would this rid the world of greed, selfishness, envy, strife, jealousy, bigotry, warfare, etc.? Even if it may rid the world less of these things, would it really rid it enough to even notice? Do we really believe, that it is simply religion that produces these things in us?

Or, do we all understand, that whether we hold some sort of belief in a god or not, that we are all guilty of these sort of things listed above, and that we all struggle against them?

My point is, as a Christian, I am not under the impression that, if all in the world were Christians, this would remedy our situation.

With this being said, is there anyone under the impression that if we could rid the world of any sort of religion, that this would remedy our situation, and be our salvation?

What was the question? Humans are not going to "get rid" of religion. If religion passes away it will be because it no longer serves a purpose. Religion serves no purpose in my life. As incomprehensible as that may be to a religious person, people like me are rapidly becoming mainstream.

What was the question?

I believe I counted six questions in all.

Humans are not going to "get rid" of religion.

I certainly believe there are humans that are putting forth such an effort. Some have been at it since they were a teenager, for some 50 years now.

If religion passes away it will be because it no longer serves a purpose.

Believe it or not, there are many of us Christians, who do not view Christianity first, and far most, as serving a purpose. The purpose we do see, we would rather be able to do without.

Religion serves no purpose in my life.

Well okay? I have no problem with this, but it does not answer any of the questions of the OP.

As incomprehensible as that may be to a religious person, people like me are rapidly becoming mainstream.

This is not in any way "incomprehensible." In fact, I may understand it very well!

As far as, "people like you rapidly becoming mainstream", I fail to see a point here, on top of the fact that I responded to this very thing, in my last response to you on another thread.

ref:Re: Why do you think atheists exist?

[Realworldjack]

I see it two ways:
1. If there is a being who wants us to believe, then humanity pish-poshng it would surely inspire some action by it.
2. Or the more likely, man starting to take responsibility for it's own actions and discover what it is like not to blame a Jungian imaginary friend for their ails.

It will certainly be an adjustment that will lead to a new kind of mankind that can survive without a 'big father' in the sky looking out for them.

If there is a being who wants us to believe, then humanity pish-poshng it would surely inspire some action by it.

What religion teaches such a thing as you describe?

Or the more likely, man starting to take responsibility for it's own actions and discover what it is like not to blame a Jungian imaginary friend for their ails.

Do all religions encourage this sort of thinking? If so, could you explain how Christianity would fit into this category?

[Tired of the Nonsense]

There is a current thread on this site, that poses that we, "should put God aside for a few years." Once this is done, we would then turn our attention to the poor, and needy. The question then becomes, "Would we have a better world?"

Well, I cannot speak for any other religion in the world, but as a Christian, I would like to ask, does Christianity have anything at all to do with, and, or, does it ever promise to produce a, "better world?"

In other words, is it the objective of Christianity to produce better behaving people, in order to produce a better world?

Next, are we under the impression, that if there was no religion, and no belief in any sort of god, that this would produce a better world?

If we were to be able to rid the world of any sort of religion, would this rid the world of greed, selfishness, envy, strife, jealousy, bigotry, warfare, etc.? Even if it may rid the world less of these things, would it really rid it enough to even notice? Do we really believe, that it is simply religion that produces these things in us?

Or, do we all understand, that whether we hold some sort of belief in a god or not, that we are all guilty of these sort of things listed above, and that we all struggle against them?

My point is, as a Christian, I am not under the impression that, if all in the world were Christians, this would remedy our situation.

With this being said, is there anyone under the impression that if we could rid the world of any sort of religion, that this would remedy our situation, and be our salvation?

What was the question? Humans are not going to "get rid" of religion. If religion passes away it will be because it no longer serves a purpose. Religion serves no purpose in my life. As incomprehensible as that may be to a religious person, people like me are rapidly becoming mainstream.

What was the question?

I believe I counted six questions in all.

Humans are not going to "get rid" of religion.

I certainly believe there are humans that are putting forth such an effort. Some have been at it since they were a teenager, for some 50 years now.

If religion passes away it will be because it no longer serves a purpose.

Believe it or not, there are many of us Christians, who do not view Christianity first, and far most, as serving a purpose. The purpose we do see, we would rather be able to do without.

Religion serves no purpose in my life.

Well okay? I have no problem with this, but it does not answer any of the questions of the OP.

As incomprehensible as that may be to a religious person, people like me are rapidly becoming mainstream.

This is not in any way "incomprehensible." In fact, I may understand it very well!

As far as, "people like you rapidly becoming mainstream", I fail to see a point here, on top of the fact that I responded to this very thing, in my last response to you on another thread.

ref:Re: Why do you think atheists exist?

It's been clear to many people, pretty much eternally I suppose, that many religious claims are not really realistic. I refer to these claims as silly. But religion also served to explain the big questions of existence. And so religion has endured.

We have surmounted that particular problem now however. For the last hundred years modern science has been busily filling in the blanks concerning the operation of the universe. And the more we understand, the more we can see that the universe works perfectly fine naturally and does not require supernatural assistance. The word is out, and there is no going back. Science did not set out to be the death knell of religion. But that is what is occurring. Those individuals who love their religious beliefs will hold onto them until the bitter end. But everyone dies. In the meantime those who are familiar with the scientific explanation for the operation of the universe are rapidly growing. By the middle of this century the big technologically advanced nations of the world will have become mainly populated by non believers, leaving religion to be largely the product of the backwards and poorly educated counties. Religion will become ever more identified with ignorance.

There has been a fundamental change in the way we view the universe, and I don't see the tide turning on this.

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to post 7 by Tired of the Nonsense]

It's been clear to many people, pretty much eternally I suppose, that many religious claims are not really realistic.

This may be true, but the trouble I am having is to understand what this would have to do with what the truth may be? You see, there is a tremendous difference between, "it being clear to many people", as opposed to these religious claims clearly being unrealistic.

I refer to these claims as silly.

Well, you can refer to them any way you like, and I will have no problem with the way you refer to them. However, unless you can demonstrate that the claims are indeed silly, then you are simply expressing an opinion. What is really silly, is for one to express their opinion, as if it were a fact!

But religion also served to explain the big questions of existence. And so religion has endured.

As with many times, I do not disagree with you here. However, your problem is the fact that many of us do not begin with the question of our, "existence." Rather, there are some of us who begin with being concerned with what the truth may be.

And so religion has endured.

And again, we agree! Not that religion actually serves to, "to explain the big questions of existence." But rather that there are those religions that claim to explain such things, and that there are those who have the need to have these questions resolved.

However, your problem here is, none of this would explain the claims made in the NT. Nor would it explain all the other facts involved. In other words, the NT Biblical writers, were not in any way interested in explaining "the questions of our existence."

We have surmounted that particular problem now however. For the last hundred years modern science has been busily filling in the blanks concerning the operation of the universe.

And again we agree! But again, and however, the NT writers were not attempting to explain the, "operation of the universe." Rather, they were simply attempting to explain what they claim to have witnessed,, and they did so, not having any idea that what they were writing would ever be read some 2000 years later.

And the more we understand, the more we can see that the universe works perfectly fine naturally and does not require supernatural assistance.

Since science should operate from the stand point of simply wanting to know how the universe actually works naturally, then this is what we should expect. However, science cannot give an answer for the claims that are made by the NT writers.

In other words, science can only tell us how the universe works. It cannot tell us, if there may be some sort of supernatural force behind this work. It also cannot, and should not attempt to explain to us, if certain historical claims have actually occurred, or not.

As an example, we know there are claims of a body coming back to life. It is not the duty of science to tell us if this event actually happened. Rather, it would be the duty of science to explain to us if, it is scientifically possible for such an event to occur.

We all understand that a body coming back to life is not in any way, scientifically possible. But this does not explain whether the event actually happened!

The word is out, and there is no going back.

You are right again! The word is out! It is scientifically impossible for a body to come back to life. Now, does this necessarily mean that a body did not come back to life?

Science did not set out to be the death knell of religion.

Again, we agree. However the fact of the matter is, science should never even concern itself with religion. In other words, science should never concern itself with attempting to disprove any sort of religion. Rather, it should stick to those things it can explain, and if those things necessarily explain religion away, then so be it. However, thus far, it has not!

But that is what is occurring.

Not exactly! This is simply an opinion you hold!

Those individuals who love their religious beliefs will hold onto them until the bitter end.

Agree again! There are those who will hold on to what they would rather believe, in spite of any sort of evidence against it. However, this would not simply apply to those who hold religious beliefs. Rather, this could, and would apply to many different beliefs, including those who may would rather not believe in any sort of religion.

In other words, are you under the impression that this sort of thing can only apply to those who hold religious beliefs, and it could not possibly apply to those who would rather not believe in any sort of religion?

But everyone dies.

Well, the fact of the matter is, all of us who are alive, are dying at this very moment. What is causing our death?

In the meantime those who are familiar with the scientific explanation for the operation of the universe are rapidly growing.

And I would be one of them!

By the middle of this century the big technologically advanced nations of the world will have become mainly populated by non believers, leaving religion to be largely the product of the backwards and poorly educated counties.

Well, more than likely, you, and I, will not be here to witness such things, since we both are dying, sooner. If this does occur after we are gone, what would be your point?

Religion will become ever more identified with ignorance.

I do not doubt this at all! So, what would be your point?

There has been a fundamental change in the way we view the universe, and I don't see the tide turning on this.

Well, we never really know which way the tide will turn. But I would have to agree with you, that I do not see the tide turning much at all. In other words, I tend to believe that as time moves on, we will begin to see, less, and less Christians. What I am having trouble understanding is, what is your point?

[Monta]

[Replying to post 1 by Realworldjack]


"Next, are we under the impression, that if there was no religion, and no belief in any sort of god, that this would produce a better world? "

Those who hold that view have plenty of examples of places where God is not acknowledged. Our cities are full of prostitution, crime, young girls and boys sold for sex.
Bolshevic Revolution flattened every church and killed over 30.000 priests and millions of its citizens.
Our politicians keep God away in their decisions of wars; they do not see people suffering only the power, control and profit.

Here we differentiate between religion (true religion is a belief in One God who created the universe) and religiosity (inverted, falsified teaching of One God the Creator).
Life of religion is to do good. Under religiosity one can do anything they like while professing belief in God.

[Kenisaw]

While I do not think that it is the primary objective of Christianity to just produce better behaving people, I do think that better behaving people is a necessary result of the primary objective of Christianity (bringing people into a trusting relationship with God). I do not think it is an immediate result. I also do not think it is a complete result in each individual in this phase of life.

If I may, I think that the primary objective of each Christian is to get into heaven. To obtain this selfish goal they may feel inclined to be better behaving than they might otherwise be. But that doesn't necessarily translate into useful action. For example, millions of people praying for the hurricane victims in Houston may seem to a theist to be "helping", and no doubt made those that prayed feel like they did something. To someone like me who is an atheist, that's a lot of wasted time and effort that did nothing for anyone except made those that prayed feel like something was accomplished.