How is science different then "feeling" God?
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How is science different then "feeling" God?
Post #1How is observational science, being based on how we perceive our universe and how we make sense of those perceptions, any different then someone who believes in God because they "feel" his presence?
Post #51
I thought that is exactly what you are saying. Reality works -we have laws - therefore God exists.Tart wrote:
How would you like it if i said "God exists, because thats just how reality works"...
In fact we have discovered that things do move subject to verifiable mathematical laws. It is a giant step to move from that discovery, to declaring that a rational agent created everything. Where is this agent?
All we are doing is clothing our utter ignorance with something that warmly fits into our brains. It is true we have postulated the Big Bang, and Hawking has mystifyingly said that there was nothing before the Big Bang, just as there is nothing south of the South Pole.
Possibly wiser people in a wiser age will offer a better answer. Inventing God to solve the problem is a fair enough solution, if only he'd acknowldge it. Calling this entity Yahweh is maybe a step too far. Letting him play hide and seek with primitive man is a step into the ridiculous. Best to say: we have no idea and be thankful for our geniuses.
Newton would have thought it inconceivable that his laws were flawed, given their obvious application. He was fascinated with the occult.Tart wrote:
“Don’t doubt the Creator, because it is inconceivable that accidents alone could be the controller of this universe.’’~Newton
Post #52
Where is this agent? God? He is at the base of our society, the cornerstone of the temple, the foundation of knowledge and wisdom... lol.. You act like God is hidden from us, but it is just you closing your eyes...marco wrote:I thought that is exactly what you are saying. Reality works -we have laws - therefore God exists.Tart wrote:
How would you like it if i said "God exists, because thats just how reality works"...
In fact we have discovered that things do move subject to verifiable mathematical laws. It is a giant step to move from that discovery, to declaring that a rational agent created everything. Where is this agent?
All we are doing is clothing our utter ignorance with something that warmly fits into our brains. It is true we have postulated the Big Bang, and Hawking has mystifyingly said that there was nothing before the Big Bang, just as there is nothing south of the South Pole.
Possibly wiser people in a wiser age will offer a better answer. Inventing God to solve the problem is a fair enough solution, if only he'd acknowldge it. Calling this entity Yahweh is maybe a step too far. Letting him play hide and seek with primitive man is a step into the ridiculous. Best to say: we have no idea and be thankful for our geniuses.
"I am the Light"... is a complete opposite cry from playing "hide and seek".
God is known, and can be known, there isnt anything hidden about Him. I am pointing to the foundation of reason, knowledge, and wisdom... Not an invention, but an observation, and experience that is intelligible.. God is consistent with our reality, He is prophetic and reveals a destiny for man kind...
Just as science is reliable for predicting things (only if you assume induction), God is reliable for showing us the destiny of mankind, (which proves induction, and therefor justifies that science is reliable)
This is far from hidden..
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations..." (Matthew 24:14)
Last edited by Tart on Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Post #54
He is a being with multiple personalities, not just three. Terror that strikes our cities comes from staunch belief in God. People were burned because of staunch belief in God. It is harder to see what good comes from this cornerstone.Tart wrote:
He is at the base of our society, the cornerstone of the temple, the foundation of knowledge and wisdom... lol.. You act like God is hidden from us, but it is just you closing your eyes...
Well he is NOT consistent with reality, obviously. To be known means that people nod their heads and say: "Yep, I know him." Some people say they know God but I think this is a declaration based on what is called faith.Tart wrote:
God is known, and can be known, there isnt anything hidden about Him. I am pointing to the foundation of reason, knowledge, and wisdom... Not an invention, but an observation, and experience that is intelligible.. God is consistent with our reality, He is prophetic and reveals a destiny for man kind...
Matthew may have wished this, but as I said, what happened was killing and massacres in God's name. The Church rose from the blood of those it destroyed. And billions have moved from one prophet to a better one, Muhamamd, the final one we are told. Christianity, like everything else, has its shelf-life. I do not say that what will replace it will be better but we must heed Ecclesiastes:Tart wrote:
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations..." (Matthew 24:14)
"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens:
a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot,
a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build,
a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance,."
Christianity has had its time.
Post #55
[Replying to marco]
Christianity has had its time, it has had its time to spread to the entire world just as the Bible said, in the same way you guys boast about the predictive abilities of science, yet close your eyes to that of God...
If you want to use scripture "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."~Matthew 24:35
And if you want to declare Christianity is passing away, i would suggest to actually wait for some kind of evdience to believe that, then to just blindly think it so...
Right?
You wouldnt want to believe in something that has no evidence?
So you bring up morality... So i suppose you agree that objective morality exists, in order to condemn God... Evil and Good exists... Ya?
If so, does that have some kind of objective foundation? Or should we continue to stick with "it is just the way things are"?
Christianity has had its time, it has had its time to spread to the entire world just as the Bible said, in the same way you guys boast about the predictive abilities of science, yet close your eyes to that of God...
If you want to use scripture "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."~Matthew 24:35
And if you want to declare Christianity is passing away, i would suggest to actually wait for some kind of evdience to believe that, then to just blindly think it so...
Right?
You wouldnt want to believe in something that has no evidence?
So you bring up morality... So i suppose you agree that objective morality exists, in order to condemn God... Evil and Good exists... Ya?
If so, does that have some kind of objective foundation? Or should we continue to stick with "it is just the way things are"?
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imhereforyou
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Re: How is science different then "feeling" God?
Post #56Good accurate science relies on testability and repeatability based on facts.Tart wrote: How is observational science, being based on how we perceive our universe and how we make sense of those perceptions, any different then someone who believes in God because they "feel" his presence?
Feelings have little to no basis on facts.
Post #57
Christianity was wiped out in many countries by the spread of Islam. Europe is now a thriving reception room for that same Islamic spread. Falling birthrate among indigenous Europeans and rising birthrate among polygamous incomers will signal the end. What will provide the death knell is Christianity's relaxation of rules against heresy and apostasy while apostates in Islam can be subject to the severest penalties, including death.Tart wrote:
And if you want to declare Christianity is passing away, i would suggest to actually wait for some kind of evdience to believe that, then to just blindly think it so...
Right?
I am not happy that this is taking place. It is how things are.
All this has a bearing on the continuing progress of science. God is in one corner and science in another. The Christian God has stopped killing scientists; his brother-in-law might not be so indulgent.
Post #58
That quote is just not true. God is a foundation for truth and knowledge. And you know how i know God is a foundation for truth? A cornerstone of the temple? A rock on which our society is built on... We start with truth.. Ill tell you, im going to study abroad this summer, in Italy.. Rome.. This is literally a place you can go to seek to understand our society. Im studying Roman infrastructure... Their design... And our history is in God.. We have a foundation in the truth.. Like literally, a physical construction, civil engineering, art, history, all attributed to God.. Our country, and its rights given to man, our law, they all start with God...Our words come from God... Reasoning points to God... Literally...God is in one corner and science in another.
Our word for "logic" comes out of God in the Greek philosophy.. They say you got to start with truth, and then you can reason with truth.. Atheism tells us there is no real truth... that we started off without truth... That there isnt a foundation for these things...
Scientific atheism is just crumbling in on itself... They act as if you're stupid if you think evolution is directed by God... But we are going to find out that it is directed, and scientist have began to question this idea that "random mutations and natural selection"... They say there has got to be more to it, and evolution will be reformed... Not in the favor of randomness..
They use to say, that its absurd to say the universe came into existence.. They would luagh at you if you said the universe came into existence in the early/mid 1900's... And boom science falls out from under their feet when we get the microwaves residual of the big bang...
They say that life started without God, in a glop of slime with lighting... that is a hypnosis that is abandoned now... Now some calculations suggest that like coming into existence from some kind of chemical bonding process has about as much a chance, as 1 in a *trillion*trillion*trillion... Essentially 0...
they brush off how we were created, in perfect conditions to live... and even suggest "mutli universes"... But is there ANY evidence of that? No, there isnt any evidence of a "multi-verse"... hypocrites... No eveidence whatsoever, they suggested that because of the "fine tuning" of the universe, which we have evidence for...
In fact, we are now realizing atheist take their science on blind faith... They say "it just makes sense, and thats how it is"... We are finding out that God is the necessary precondition for reasoning... It is a revelation from God being revealed. In fact, atheist should question, "why does anything make sense"... Not just science, but why can you make sense out of anything? Becuase there is no foundation for why anything should make sense... Thats what the atheist Dr. Hume suggested.. He was the one to say YOU GUYS rely on circular reasoning, when you assume induction is true, which science is built on....
scientific atheism is a crumbling philosophy... Not even top scientific minds could comprehend how you could believe in nothing, without a purpose destiny, an order in things. An objective truth, a requirement for free-will, a revealing of laws, a foundation of morality, where our reasoning comes from and points to, logos, a light from the beginning... They dont make sense out of any of this.. Just say "well thats how it is"...
God is a precondition necessary for these things, which if you open your eyes you will see it... God is a foundation...
When im in Italy, im going to step in infrastructure that is built on God... Imma study their engineering... Jesus Christ is so clearly the light... A truth from the beginning... A "creative order" in things, that justifies an order in nature.. And science... God is actually a precondition to make sense out of science, and when you use your brain, you should thank God for your brain, and your ability to reason... Becuase God created even YOU....
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Tcg
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Post #59
[Replying to post 58 by Tart]
Your post contains roughly 30 unsupported assertions. Some were repeats or slightly revised versions of unsupported assertions you used previously, so perhaps the number is closer to 25.
In any case, your post is not much more than a display of your faith in God. The fact that you apparently believe these claims is not evidence that they are true. It is evidence that you believe them and nothing more.
Your post contains roughly 30 unsupported assertions. Some were repeats or slightly revised versions of unsupported assertions you used previously, so perhaps the number is closer to 25.
In any case, your post is not much more than a display of your faith in God. The fact that you apparently believe these claims is not evidence that they are true. It is evidence that you believe them and nothing more.
Post #60
Take my belief away, God remains... Because God is objective, he exists beyond myself.. My faith in God, rooted in the evidence of God which is all around you... You just dont see it...Tcg wrote: [Replying to post 58 by Tart]
Your post contains roughly 30 unsupported assertions. Some were repeats or slightly revised versions of unsupported assertions you used previously, so perhaps the number is closer to 25.
In any case, your post is not much more than a display of your faith in God. The fact that you apparently believe these claims is not evidence that they are true. It is evidence that you believe them and nothing more.
Do you have any evidence atheism is true?
