The New World Translation does not change John 1:1

[EastwardTraveler]

Here is a thread I started on another forum, but wanted to put it up here as well. I am new here, but I am already enjoying this forum much better. Less trolls and better discussion and attitudes.
*********************************************

This is a response to a tread about John 1:1 and how the New World Translation corrects this mistake about calling the Word "God". The NWT claims to fix this issue by calling the Word "a god". Next the assertion is there are many gods in the Bible and being a god is different than being God, implying that God is not a god. Being a god is said to be more of a title or status, and nothing could be further from the truth.

First there is a word play here does not exist in the Hebrew. There is no capitalization in Hebrew, so in English terms, there is no big or little g. The context of the scripture would have let the reader know which god is being talked about. Even from a grammatical point of view this changes nothing. Here is what I mean. It is grammatically correct and scripturally correct for me to say that "God is a god". God is just a proper pronoun letting us know which god we are talking about. A god is not a status but the nature of something. God is a god because he happens to be a spiritually divine being.

So changing John 1:1 does not change the problem of the Word being called God. You are still left with a big problem of the identity of Jesus if he was by nature an elohim.

The next tactic that will be used to to bring up that there are many gods in the Bible. This is a silly argument, because all of the other gods of the Bible are false gods or men calling themselves gods. Neither of the two pleases God, so I find it odd that this is used to justify the Word being called a god/elohim and he not be God. Lets break it down even further. Just because men made up gods and created images to them, does not make them a real god. Same if a man calls himself or another person a god, it does not make them a true god. Again this does not please God to do so.

Here is my beleif, that God/elohim is the only real god/elohim in the scriptures. All other gods/elohim are false gods/elohim. No where in scripture is it a good thing to be call a god/elohim if the thing being talked about is not God himself.

While I started off mentioning The NWT I am eager to hear from all who do not believe that Jesus is God, not just Jehovahs Witness. I prefer not to hear from Trinitarians and Unitarians on this post, but ultimately am not opposed to it.

My last request is that for those responding, try and keep it short. I do not want a page of verses quoted and a dissertation on each on. Lets try and keep it to a verse or two at a time so we can actually have a discussion that is meaningful.

Thanks and look forward to hearing from all of you out there.

[TripleZ]

[tigger2]

[TripleZ]

[tigger2]

[tigger2]

[Replying to post 82 by TripleZ]

https://www.jerusalemperspective.com/1146/

Also http://www.biblesocietyinisrael.com/st ... modern-nt

[TripleZ]

[Replying to post 1 by EastwardTraveler]

Tigger, it's for you!

(LOL just kidding).

So changing John 1:1 does not change the problem of the Word being called God. You are still left with a big problem of the identity of Jesus if he was by nature an elohim..

If I understand your point, you are saying even acknowleding that the second "G/god" of John 1:1c as not being the g/God previously mentioned doesn't IDENTIFY who each indivicual is.

Am I understanding your point correctly?


RELATED POSTS

Does the NWT take liberties by adding the indefinite article to certain passages?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 563#821563

Your suppositions are famous.. No one is stating that Yeshua ( His Real Hebrew Name ) is GOD, Scripture is there for all of you to READ and ingest,believe and understand...IF this is what you want to do ?
Where does Scripture say these things that you claim people are saying ?

[TripleZ]

I hope this isn't getting off-topic, but I was wondering if you could clarify something for me, please, Eastward Traveler.

Who or what is "a god"? Do you think that's referring to Jesus? If so, are you suggesting there is a pantheon of gods with Jehovah at the top and the other "gods", like Jesus, with a small "g" are lesser ones? Or are you saying Jesus is a false god?

Or if Jesus isn't the "god" referred to in that verse, who is that god? And where does he fit in the scheme of things?

Thanks! O.

This is not off-topic at all. In fact this is exactly where I wanted to conversation to go. When we talk about a god in the scripture, we are talking about a divine spiritual being. That is the context we see in scripture, especially in the old testament. No where in scripture is it good to be called a god and scripture not be talking about Jehovah, no where end of statement. I am not saying there is a pantheon or that Jesus is a false god. When we read John 1:1 and see that Jesus is called a god, we are presented with a problem. By being called a god we are talking about Jesus' nature and only one god/theos/elohim exist. All other gods are false gods. If scripture is referring to something that is a god and is real, and is apart Jehovah's system then we must be talking about Jehovah himself, because he is the only real god in existence.

In short, what other real gods are there?
Psalm 115:5
Psalm 135:16
Deuteronomy 4:28
Daniel 5:23
The above verses make it abundantly clear from Jehovah himself that ALL other gods/Gods are false and do not exist. They are the imaginations of man, and it baffles me that people use the existence of false gods in our minds to justify that it is okay for Jesus to be a god, yet not be God himself.

well according to WT ideology if you buy a " flock " of sheep you only get one but if you buy THE flock of sheep you one flock..
the WT is just another cult, akin to the RCC and Mormons and 7th dayers,several others..

[TripleZ]

[Replying to post 1 by EastwardTraveler]

Tigger, it's for you!

(LOL just kidding).

So changing John 1:1 does not change the problem of the Word being called God. You are still left with a big problem of the identity of Jesus if he was by nature an elohim..

If I understand your point, you are saying even acknowleding that the second "G/god" of John 1:1c as not being the g/God previously mentioned doesn't IDENTIFY who each indivicual is.

Am I understanding your point correctly?


RELATED POSTS

Does the NWT take liberties by adding the indefinite article to certain passages?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 563#821563

the NWT is a huge LIE, form ccover to cover an it hows that the WT cult is a religion of " Footnotes " only.. BTW , JWs are forbidden to read the NWT..so that alone says it all about their cult leaders.

[tigger2]

ZZZ:

the NWT is a huge LIE, form [sic] ccover[sic] to cover an[sic] it hows[sic] that the WT cult is a religion of " Footnotes " only.. BTW , JWs are forbidden to read the NWT..so that alone says it all about their cult leaders.

This is completely false (and ridiculous) and shows the quality of research being done by some. Not only are JWs free to read the NWT, but any other Bible as well.

When one makes such charges, he should produce references and quotes at least.

[dianaiad]

I hope this isn't getting off-topic, but I was wondering if you could clarify something for me, please, Eastward Traveler.

Who or what is "a god"? Do you think that's referring to Jesus? If so, are you suggesting there is a pantheon of gods with Jehovah at the top and the other "gods", like Jesus, with a small "g" are lesser ones? Or are you saying Jesus is a false god?

Or if Jesus isn't the "god" referred to in that verse, who is that god? And where does he fit in the scheme of things?

Thanks! O.

This is not off-topic at all. In fact this is exactly where I wanted to conversation to go. When we talk about a god in the scripture, we are talking about a divine spiritual being. That is the context we see in scripture, especially in the old testament. No where in scripture is it good to be called a god and scripture not be talking about Jehovah, no where end of statement. I am not saying there is a pantheon or that Jesus is a false god. When we read John 1:1 and see that Jesus is called a god, we are presented with a problem. By being called a god we are talking about Jesus' nature and only one god/theos/elohim exist. All other gods are false gods. If scripture is referring to something that is a god and is real, and is apart Jehovah's system then we must be talking about Jehovah himself, because he is the only real god in existence.

In short, what other real gods are there?
Psalm 115:5
Psalm 135:16
Deuteronomy 4:28
Daniel 5:23
The above verses make it abundantly clear from Jehovah himself that ALL other gods/Gods are false and do not exist. They are the imaginations of man, and it baffles me that people use the existence of false gods in our minds to justify that it is okay for Jesus to be a god, yet not be God himself.

well according to WT ideology if you buy a " flock " of sheep you only get one but if you buy THE flock of sheep you one flock..
the WT is just another cult, akin to the RCC and Mormons and 7th dayers,several others..

Moderator Warning


Address the content of the post. Do not use uncivil language, generalities or insults as a substitution for civil debate.

Please review our Rules.

______________

Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.