Isn't the Book of Revelation just a fable and not literal?

[polonius]

http://www.usccb.org/bible/revelation/0

Introduction to Revelation " New American Bible Revised Edition

This much, however, is certain: symbolic descriptions are not to be taken as literal descriptions, nor is the symbolism meant to be pictured realistically. One would find it difficult and repulsive to visualize a lamb with seven horns and seven eyes; yet Jesus Christ is described in precisely such words (Rev 5:6). The author used these images to suggest Christs universal (seven) power (horns) and knowledge (eyes). A significant feature of apocalyptic writing is the use of symbolic colors, metals, garments (Rev 1:13"16; 3:18; 4:4; 6:1"8; 17:4; 19:8), and numbers (four signifies the world, six imperfection, seven totality or perfection, twelve Israels tribes or the apostles, one thousand immensity). Finally the vindictive language in the book (Rev 6:9"10; 18:1"19:4) is also to be understood symbolically and not literally. The cries for vengeance on the lips of Christian martyrs that sound so harsh are in fact literary devices the author employed to evoke in the reader and hearer a feeling of horror for apostasy and rebellion that will be severely punished by God.

[onewithhim]

We can understand Revelation with the help of the Holy Spirit, and I find this book fascinating. If someone wants to learn more about it, there is an excellent book

Luther thought it rubbish and Luther was right. It is possible to let a child throw paint on canvas and interpret the mess as art. The prophecies of Nostradamus can be interpreted in a variety of ways too.

Revelation is filled with obscure images that lend themselves to whatever interpretation the reader wants to give. It is therefore a wonderful book for those who want to advertise their own brand of Christianity. It remains rubbish, nonetheless, as Luther opined.

Luther became more confused as he grew older. He started to think a lot of Scripture was rubbish. I wouldn't put much faith in what Luther thought.

RESPONSE: But he was correct. A lot of "scripture" is rubbish.

(For example, did you read Matthew,s story of Jesus riding on two animals of different sizes when entering Jerusalem so Matthew could claim Jeseshad fulfilled a prophecy which Matthew misunderstood?)

Of course I know about the passage saying that Jesus rode two animals. That certainly was nothing God inspired. Who is to know why Matthew wrote such a thing? I don't let silly details like that take away from the overall picture of things. We take the event, that Jesus rode into Jerusalem on some kind of donkey, as the truth that it surely is, and meditate on how it harmonizes with everything else that was told in the prophecies, and how Jesus Christ's life meshes with it all.

I wouldn't take Luther's word for anything. The poor man was falling apart.

[onewithhim]

Luther became more confused as he grew older. He started to think a lot of Scripture was rubbish. I wouldn't put much faith in what Luther thought.

Some would say that suggests Luther matured with age. It is understandable that people might become confused if they spent any time reading Revelation. It has no place in an age of reason. It cannot even be commended as children's literature.

Our children are with us when we go over Revelation. When understood, it is not horrifying. They remember the very positive things that are said in Revelation, like chapter 21 and verses 4 and 5.

When going over the parts about the beast and the harlot, the children understand that the beast stands for men's governments and the harlot stands for religion that is false and does not really represent God. They understand that God will get rid of all the lies that people tell, and all the bad governments that are hurting people now. They understand that we still have to show them respect, in each of our various lands, and wait for God, through Christ, to make everything nice again.

[onewithhim]

Luther became more confused as he grew older. He started to think a lot of Scripture was rubbish. I wouldn't put much faith in what Luther thought.

Some would say that suggests Luther matured with age. It is understandable that people might become confused if they spent any time reading Revelation. It has no place in an age of reason. It cannot even be commended as children's literature.

RESPONSE: Are you suggesting that fundamentalists are misjudging the book of Revelation? Isn't that a four star heresy?

Fundamentalists don't know their behind from their elbow.

[onewithhim]

http://www.usccb.org/bible/revelation/0

Introduction to Revelation " New American Bible Revised Edition

This much, however, is certain: symbolic descriptions are not to be taken as literal descriptions, nor is the symbolism meant to be pictured realistically. One would find it difficult and repulsive to visualize a lamb with seven horns and seven eyes; yet Jesus Christ is described in precisely such words (Rev 5:6). The author used these images to suggest Christs universal (seven) power (horns) and knowledge (eyes). A significant feature of apocalyptic writing is the use of symbolic colors, metals, garments (Rev 1:13"16; 3:18; 4:4; 6:1"8; 17:4; 19:8), and numbers (four signifies the world, six imperfection, seven totality or perfection, twelve Israels tribes or the apostles, one thousand immensity). Finally the vindictive language in the book (Rev 6:9"10; 18:1"19:4) is also to be understood symbolically and not literally. The cries for vengeance on the lips of Christian martyrs that sound so harsh are in fact literary devices the author employed to evoke in the reader and hearer a feeling of horror for apostasy and rebellion that will be severely punished by God.

Hate to say it, but I think you will be caught unawares when the "fig tree" puts forth its leaves (Mt 24:32). You seem to mix up "vengeance" with the justice and "wrath" of God. A good example of what is coming up per the "awesome day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32), where you will have "survivors", is found in Revelation 9:18, whereas 'a third of mankind... was killed". The term "many" can be a literal device, the term "a third of mankind", is quite specific.

The 7 horns and 7 eyes are with respect to the 7 angels of the 7 churches. (Rev 1:20) & (Zech 4:2-10)

A third of mankind might seem specific, but it is not literal. Most of the numbers have other meanings, such as 7 signifying "divinely determined completeness (as to Jehovah's purposes or sometimes to Satan's)." (Rev.1:4,12,16; 4:5,6; 10:3,4; 12:3)

Other numbers:

3 Denotes emphasis; also indicates intensity. (Rev.4:8; 8:13; 16:13,19)

6 Signifies imperfection, something not normal, monstrous. (Rev.13:18; see 2 Samuel 21:20)

10 Signifies completeness in a physical way, as to things on earth. (Rev.2:10; 12:3; 13:1; 17:3,12,16)

12 Signifies a divinely constituted organization either in the heavens or on the earth. (Rev. 7:5-8; 12:1; 21:12,16; 22:2)


However, some numbers are to be understood as literal, depending on the context. (Rev.7:4,9; 11:2,3; 12:6,14; 17:3,9-11; 20:3-5)

[onewithhim]

http://www.usccb.org/bible/revelation/0

Introduction to Revelation " New American Bible Revised Edition

This much, however, is certain: symbolic descriptions are not to be taken as literal descriptions, nor is the symbolism meant to be pictured realistically. One would find it difficult and repulsive to visualize a lamb with seven horns and seven eyes; yet Jesus Christ is described in precisely such words (Rev 5:6). The author used these images to suggest Christs universal (seven) power (horns) and knowledge (eyes). A significant feature of apocalyptic writing is the use of symbolic colors, metals, garments (Rev 1:13"16; 3:18; 4:4; 6:1"8; 17:4; 19:8), and numbers (four signifies the world, six imperfection, seven totality or perfection, twelve Israels tribes or the apostles, one thousand immensity). Finally the vindictive language in the book (Rev 6:9"10; 18:1"19:4) is also to be understood symbolically and not literally. The cries for vengeance on the lips of Christian martyrs that sound so harsh are in fact literary devices the author employed to evoke in the reader and hearer a feeling of horror for apostasy and rebellion that will be severely punished by God.

Hate to say it, but I think you will be caught unawares when the "fig tree" puts forth its leaves (Mt 24:32). You seem to mix up "vengeance" with the justice and "wrath" of God. A good example of what is coming up per the "awesome day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32), where you will have "survivors", is found in Revelation 9:18, whereas 'a third of mankind... was killed". The term "many" can be a literal device, the term "a third of mankind", is quite specific.

The 7 horns and 7 eyes are with respect to the 7 angels of the 7 churches. (Rev 1:20) & (Zech 4:2-10)

RESPONSE; Paul tells us to test everything. Retain what is true. But put aside childish things. This I and many others have done regarding the Book of Revelations.

That is a big mistake.

You leave yourself in the darkness.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 34 by onewithhim]

3 Denotes emphasis; also indicates intensity. (Rev.4:8; 8:13; 16:13,19)

6 Signifies imperfection, something not normal, monstrous. (Rev.13:18; see 2 Samuel 21:20)

10 Signifies completeness in a physical way, as to things on earth. (Rev.2:10; 12:3; 13:1; 17:3,12,16)

It follows that 1000 signifies completeness emphasised (10x10x10).

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 34 by onewithhim]

3 Denotes emphasis; also indicates intensity. (Rev.4:8; 8:13; 16:13,19)

6 Signifies imperfection, something not normal, monstrous. (Rev.13:18; see 2 Samuel 21:20)

10 Signifies completeness in a physical way, as to things on earth. (Rev.2:10; 12:3; 13:1; 17:3,12,16)

It follows that 1000 signifies completeness emphasised (10x10x10).

Good observation. And 144,000 shows completeness emphasized (12 X 12).

[onewithhim]

Or, rather, 144 (12 X 12).

[polonius]

http://www.usccb.org/bible/revelation/0

Introduction to Revelation " New American Bible Revised Edition

This much, however, is certain: symbolic descriptions are not to be taken as literal descriptions, nor is the symbolism meant to be pictured realistically. One would find it difficult and repulsive to visualize a lamb with seven horns and seven eyes; yet Jesus Christ is described in precisely such words (Rev 5:6). The author used these images to suggest Christs universal (seven) power (horns) and knowledge (eyes). A significant feature of apocalyptic writing is the use of symbolic colors, metals, garments (Rev 1:13"16; 3:18; 4:4; 6:1"8; 17:4; 19:8), and numbers (four signifies the world, six imperfection, seven totality or perfection, twelve Israels tribes or the apostles, one thousand immensity). Finally the vindictive language in the book (Rev 6:9"10; 18:1"19:4) is also to be understood symbolically and not literally. The cries for vengeance on the lips of Christian martyrs that sound so harsh are in fact literary devices the author employed to evoke in the reader and hearer a feeling of horror for apostasy and rebellion that will be severely punished by God.

Hate to say it, but I think you will be caught unawares when the "fig tree" puts forth its leaves (Mt 24:32). You seem to mix up "vengeance" with the justice and "wrath" of God. A good example of what is coming up per the "awesome day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32), where you will have "survivors", is found in Revelation 9:18, whereas 'a third of mankind... was killed". The term "many" can be a literal device, the term "a third of mankind", is quite specific.

The 7 horns and 7 eyes are with respect to the 7 angels of the 7 churches. (Rev 1:20) & (Zech 4:2-10)

RESPONSE; Paul tells us to test everything. Retain what is true. But put aside childish things. This I and many others have done regarding the Book of Revelations.

That is a big mistake.

You leave yourself in the darkness.

RESPONSE: No. I avoid fiction and errors!

[showme]

[Replying to post 34 by onewithhim]

3 Denotes emphasis; also indicates intensity. (Rev.4:8; 8:13; 16:13,19)

6 Signifies imperfection, something not normal, monstrous. (Rev.13:18; see 2 Samuel 21:20)

10 Signifies completeness in a physical way, as to things on earth. (Rev.2:10; 12:3; 13:1; 17:3,12,16)

It follows that 1000 signifies completeness emphasised (10x10x10).

"It follows" that the millennium represents the day of rest, the 7th day. And as one day is as a 1000 years, it will last a "thousand years". (Rev 20:4). This seems to elude those who rest on the 8th day, the day of the sun, and they will apparently remain in the grave until the 8th day, the day following the millennium. Then they will apparently enter their rest.