Who is the Messiah supposed to be?

[polonius]

When Christians refer to the Messiah, they are referring to Jesus who is also thought to be a divine person.

However, the original Jewish concept, found the Old Testament, reports the Messiah to be a national leader, but not divine himself.

When did Christians begin to consider Jesus to be divine and how did the concept of a divine Holy Ghost develop?

[Willum]

When did Christians begin to consider Jesus to be divine and how did the concept of a divine Holy Ghost develop?

When Rome invaded and introduced Hellenism.
Suddenly, porochial YHVH (Yahu), the Canaan version of Marduk, with his wind and weather powers were feeling inadequate in the face of all-powerful Zeus, ad needed an upgrade.
Since Rome could also demean Jewish heroes and holy men with the claim that Romam heroes were demi-gods, the Saviour also needed an upgrade to compete.

Religious people are usually unable to recognize that all these Hellenic concepts were introduced to Jerusalem with the Roman domination.

That Christianity is in fact, a Hellenic themed religion, not a Judastic one.

When did Christians begin to consider Jesus to be divine and how did the concept of a divine Holy Ghost develop?

The Holy Ghost comes from the trinity of Serapis, Hathor and Osirus. A religion invented for political reasons at the dawn of Rome. When Rome realized that religion was such powerful means of control.

[2timothy316]

When Christians refer to the Messiah, they are referring to Jesus who is also thought to be a divine person.

However, the original Jewish concept, found the Old Testament, reports the Messiah to be a national leader, but not divine himself.

When did Christians begin to consider Jesus to be divine and how did the concept of a divine Holy Ghost develop?

If you could please give your definition of divine. I find many view this word differently. Are you using 1. or 2.?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/divine

religion
a : of, relating to, or proceeding directly from God (see 1god 1) or a god (see 1god 2)

divine inspiration

divine love

praying for divine intervention

b : being a deity

the divine Savior

a divine ruler

c : directed to a deity

divine worship

2 a : supremely good : superb

The meal was just divine.

b : heavenly, godlike

[Elijah John]

When Christians refer to the Messiah, they are referring to Jesus who is also thought to be a divine person.

However, the original Jewish concept, found the Old Testament, reports the Messiah to be a national leader, but not divine himself.

When did Christians begin to consider Jesus to be divine and how did the concept of a divine Holy Ghost develop?

If you're asking when Christians changed the definition of "Messiah" it began when Jesus failed to usher in the Messianic age. I bet this was around the time the doctrine of his "2nd coming" began. Since Jesus did not bring an era of world peace under the supremacy of the nation of Israel, with it's righteous King the Messiah in charge under God, he needed a hyptothetical 2nd coming to truly reign as God's annointed and fulfill all the prophecies and expctations attached to the Messiah.

As for his "Divinity", scholars like Bart Erhmann claim such thinking began soon after his early folllowers experienced somthing they understood to be his resurrecton.

But I would ask, if God raised Jesus, how does that make Jesus "God"? Or the literal "Son of God".

Earlier claims of Jesus Divine Sonship* were writen retrospectively, as the Gospels were all penned after the resurrection experience.

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* Mark, at Jesus baptism.
Matthew and Luke, at his miraculous conception.
John, Jesus was always the "Son of God".
Paul, declared to be such at his resurrection.

[steveb1]

[Replying to post 4 by Elijah John]

"But I would ask, if God raised Jesus, how does that make Jesus "God"? Or the literal "Son of God"."

Yes, the earliest testimony seems to consist in the idea that God raised up Jesus. Jesus did not raise himself.

In John, Jesus says that he gives his life freely and takes it up again, which at first blush may look like Jesus is claiming to be able to resurrect himself. But taken in the broader Johannine context, we know that Jesus "can do nothing of myself", but only "by the will of the Father" - Jesus being a "man who has heard and learned and obeys" God's will and word.

So, in context, even John's Jesus, in the resurrection, is the passive recipient of the Father's activity. This miraculous intervention means that Jesus was not ontological Son of God or "God the Son" as Trinitarians would have it. Had Jesus been God, he would have raised himself. But he doesn't, and he cannot, because of his dependence upon the Father.

However, the resurrection can still be seen as a case for another, less than divine, Sonship - the kind that sent the Spirit upon Jesus at his baptism and authorized him to preach the Kingdom, forgive sins, exorcise and heal. A Messianic "Son" and Kingdom-agent, approved by God.

[bjs]

[2timothy316]

[marco]

This thread is interesting on this point: That people are still trying to figure out who Jesus is almost 2000 years after his death. That were trying to figure it out then and they are still not sure now.

This is an excellent though perhaps unintentional assertion of the failure of Christ's mission. People are still shaking their heads as to who or what he was! If he really were sent from God, it challenges the notion that God is omnipotent.

It is amusing to see that a way round the difficulty is to say only certain people know. This used to be a joke commonly made against Roman Catholics who thought they would be exclusive inheritors of heaven. For Catholics felt they knew. But then the folk across the street have a different view - they are the ones who know. And yet Christ condemned those who claim the top table for themselves. What a mess.

[2timothy316]

[marco]