Corruption in the Clergy

[Jagella]

Scandals abound in Christianity and always have. From sex and money scandals among Pentecostal TV preachers, to child abuse allegations against the Watchtower, to the Vatican pedophile-priest cover-up, it's all over. Corruption in the clergy demonstrates that the men who criticize unbelievers for loving sin should know from personal experience what it's like to enjoy such sins.

So why trust the clergy or believe anything it says?

I can understand some people being scammed by the Christian clergy for a while like I was, but once you know you're being scammed, then the prudent thing to do is to get out like I did. Leave religion and all its corruption and all its lies behind and never return like The dog turns back to its own vomit, or "The sow is washed only to wallow in the mud.

[otseng]

For your own good you really should leave the Jehovah's Witnesses.

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[benchwarmer]

[Replying to post 49 by benchwarmer]

No but from what I can see that source is not anywhere near government sponsered, nor peer reviewed.

I could "survey" my friends and family and put that on the internet but I'm sure you can appreciation that random "surveys" of this kind which are not conducted according to a controlled criteria are not what I'm looking for. Thanks for the link but I'm interested in published peer reviewed government (or university) papers.

As for your other comments regarding "systematic problems" and " [sweeping] the problems under the carpet", I think I've more or less addressed them in my earlier posts. Unless you have some hard evidence of the kind I'm looking for on this matter, it seems fair to conclude you are voicing your opinion formed from what you have read on the internet. The available analysis I have found suggest that the Jehovah's Witnesses do not have a problem of institutionalized cover ups.

I'm not sure where you got the 'random survey' aspect from. Perhaps the hosting site of the article?

Anyways, the article itself is describing what the UK Charity Commission is looking into. This appears to be a government sponsored organization:

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisat ... commission

So, this actually appears to be what you are looking for. What seems to have happened is that because some JW organizations receive tax breaks under some sort of charity status in the UK, this put these organizations under the purview of the Charity Commission whose job appears to be vetting charity organizations. From their web page:

We register and regulate charities in England and Wales, to ensure that the public can support charities with confidence.

So, while they may not have all the data yet you are wanting, they do appear to be digging and have found some damaging information on JW organizations in the UK.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 52 by benchwarmer]

Thanks, by "random site" I was refering to JWSurvey.

I was aware of the above investigation and have followed your link to the relevant site - I will read the summary.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -witnesses

Thanks,

JW

[Bust Nak]

If you have any official studies that draw the conclusion that the Jehovah's Witnesses have "a system of protecting and hence enabling child abusers" then I would be most interested in reading it...

The continual refusal to cooperate with the police in handing over secret documents is public knowedge, look no further than the fine the organization is being slapped with. Why is that not sufficient evidence of protection for child abusers? Are the courts of the US not government enough for you?

And the Australian Royal Commission is all I've come across in terms of analysis of the Jehovah's Witness system of reporting and monitoring...

You mean the report that found documents relating to 514 alleged child abusers that warrant police investigation, where none the cases were reported to the authorities? The report that says "the Jehovahs Witnesses did not respond adequately to child sexual abuse and did not adequately protect children from the risk of sexual abuse?"

You tell me, are these individual failings or systematic failure?

[JehovahsWitness]

The continual refusal to cooperate with the police in handing over secret documents

Do you have a reliable source for these allegations?

[JehovahsWitness]

You mean the report that found documents relating to 514 alleged child abusers that warrant police investigation, where none the cases were reported to the authorities?

I have addressed the so-called 1006/514 non-reported allegations, as did the society during the commission.
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 077#912077

The report that says "the Jehovahs Witnesses did not respond adequately to child sexual abuse and did not adequately protect children from the risk of sexual abuse?"

I am aware of the findings of the Australian Commission and its findings and comments which relate to the specific cases of historical child abused analysed which reading the transcript sadly was absolutely not handled according to today's standards.

You tell me, are these individual failings or systematic failure?

Which does the report state? I have read the conclusions that related to organizational procedures and there is no statement indicating systematic non-cooperation with the authorities nor of institutionalization of child abuse or attempts to cover such a institutionalization. There is no reference in the Australian Commission of the WTS failing to cooperate with the Commission or with law enforcement agencies.

I have also read the Watchtower Societies response which is extremely detailed and sheds light the particularities of the analysis.

[Bust Nak]

[Replying to post 55 by JehovahsWitness]

http://www.courts.ca.gov/opinions/archive/D070723.PDF

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 55 by JehovahsWitness]

http://www.courts.ca.gov/opinions/archive/D070723.PDF

Thank you for the link, but what do you think this document proves?

JW

[Bust Nak]

I have addressed the so-called 1006/514 non-reported allegations, as did the society during the commission.
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 077#912077

So called non-reported? The report stated "of the 1,006 alleged perpetrators of child sexual abuse identified by the Jehovahs Witness Church since 1950, not one was reported by the Church to secular authorities. This suggests that it is the practice of the Jehovahs Witness Church to retain information regarding child sexual abuse offences but not to report allegations of child sexual abuse to the police or other relevant authorities."

I am aware of the findings of the Australian Commission and its findings and comments which relate to the specific cases of historical child abused analysed which reading the transcript sadly was absolutely not handled according to today's standards.

I will grant you that they are getting better after having their feet roasted by various courts and government inquests.

Which does the report state? I have read the conclusions that related to organizational procedures and there is no statement indicating systematic non-cooperation with the authorities nor of institutionalization of child abuse or attempts to cover such a institutionalization. There is no reference in the Australian Commission of the WTS failing to cooperate with the Commission or with law enforcement agencies.

Come on. If there is problem with organizational procedures, then it follows that it's a systematic problem, surely?

I have also read the Watchtower Societies response which is extremely detailed and sheds light the particularities of the analysis.

And you are satisified that any problems are either not a big deal or are now being fixed?

Thank you for the link, but what do you think this document proves?

You asked me for a reliable source for my allegation of the church's continual refusal to cooperate with secular authorities; go on, have a guess at what I think that linked document proves.

[JehovahsWitness]

You asked me for a reliable source for my allegation of the church's continual refusal to cooperate with secular authorities; go on, have a guess at what I think that linked document proves.

No, I'm not in the business of mind reading. You posted a link without comment so I am simply asking you what you believe the link proves.