The Mental-Illness Theory of Religion

[Jagella]

There are some viable theories of religious belief, and to posit that religious belief is a mental illness is one such theory.

It should be instructive to begin to discuss this theory with an analogy that should clarify that psychological disturbance underlies belief in gods and the supernatural. Let's say that I am sincerely claiming that I am in touch with powerful extraterrestrials. I say I communicate with them telepathically. I can and do ask them to use their highly-advanced technology to help me, and they grant my requests. I testify that their help to me has included their curing my illnesses and altering the weather for me. When skeptics ask about my ET friends, I explain that the skeptics need to please these ETs by accepting their existence. Otherwise, the skeptics will receive nothing from them!

It gets even better. I am certain that one day soon these ETs will arrive on earth from space with a spectacular display of their most advanced technologies. They will alter the light-refraction traits of the atmosphere to darken the sun and make the moon blood-red. They'll even make it appear that the stars are falling to the earth! And if that's not impressive enough, they will incinerate all people who have refused to believe in them with death-ray energy beams. Those of us who have faithfully followed these ETs will be teleported into their spacecraft to be taken away to live in paradise forever on their planet, Mumbo-Jumbo.

I'm crazy as anybody here, both believer and unbeliever, can clearly see. I'm very deluded. Yet, with just a few changes of the words I'm using, you can uncover basic Christian theology.

Why, then, is Christianity and other religions not mental illness?

[Jagella]

There are some viable theories of religious belief, and to posit that religious belief is a mental illness is one such theory.

Do you have a reference for this? Are there any reputable mental health institutions or governmental authorities promoting this theory? I'd be interested in reading some peer reviewed papers on this theory.

JW

JW, you already ignore the science behind the Theory of Evolution, so what good will psychological evidence do you if it concludes that religious belief is mental illness? Won't you just deny that evidence too?

In any case, I have noticed a lot of mental illness among Jehovah's Witnesses in particular. I've been to the local kingdom hall and saw emotionally disturbed people there. One of them told me he was manic-depressive and had been recently hospitalized because he had a manic episode. He told me that he needed to be literally held down by the hospital staff.

Now, I cannot be sure if this mental illness is caused by religion or if religion is caused by mental illness. Mentally ill people may be drawn to religion which would explain the prevalence of mental illness among the religious.

[bjs]

Jagella, you have made two meaningful claims in this thread.

The first is:

There are some viable theories of religious belief, and to posit that religious belief is a mental illness is one such theory.

JW asked you to provide a reference for this claim. Instead of doing so you insulted him.

I also ask that you provide a reference for this claim. What psychologists put forth the theory that religious belief is mental illness, and what studies support that claim?

Second, in response to historia you wrote:

Some claim religious belief can be beneficial mentally, and others have come to the opposite conclusion

The first part of that statement is clearly true. In Psychology Today psychologist Rob Whitley wrote:
The amassed research indicates that higher levels of religious belief and practice (known in social science as religiosity) is associated with better mental health.

Dr. Whitley provided links to supporting research.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... s-the-link

What studies have concluded that religious belief is mentally harmful?

[JehovahsWitness]

There are some viable theories of religious belief, and to posit that religious belief is a mental illness is one such theory.

Do you have a reference for this? Are there any reputable mental health institutions or governmental authorities promoting this theory? I'd be interested in reading some peer reviewed papers on this theory.

JW

... what good will psychological evidence do you if it concludes that religious belief is mental illness? Won't you just deny that evidence too?

Well I will react when I read evidence from mental health institutions or governmental authorities discussing the merits of this "theory". Do you have a reference or a link?

[TSGracchus]

[Replying to post 13 by JehovahsWitness]

You might google "Delusional Disorder"

"Delusions are false beliefs based on incorrect inference about external reality that persist despite the evidence to the contrary; these beliefs are not ordinarily accepted by other members of the person's culture or subculture." --- https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/292991-overview

(Please note that the italicized clause was added to specifically exempt religion from the diagnosis. It is not insane to go along as a matter of survival.)

"People who have this disorder generally dont experience a marked impairment in their daily functioning in a social, occupational, or other important setting. Outward behavior is not noticeably bizarre or objectively characterized as out-of-the-ordinary." --- https://psychcentral.com/disorders/delu ... -symptoms/

[Jagella]

[Replying to post 12 by bjs]

JW asked you to provide a reference for this claim. Instead of doing so you insulted him.

I'm just getting tired of posting links that have evidence people will deny. Is it not disrespectful to demand evidence you have no intention of accepting?

I also ask that you provide a reference for this claim. What psychologists put forth the theory that religious belief is mental illness, and what studies support that claim?

If you're really interested in that evidence, then just check YouTube. There's plenty of evidence for religion and mental illness there.

The first part of that statement is clearly true. In Psychology Today psychologist Rob Whitley wrote:
The amassed research indicates that higher levels of religious belief and practice (known in social science as religiosity) is associated with better mental health.

Dr. Whitley provided links to supporting research.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... ion-and-me...

I think that study is probably flawed. The reason I think it's flawed is because I've personally experienced mental problems from religion, and I've seen a lot of it in other people.

[historia]

In Psychology Today psychologist Rob Whitley wrote: "The amassed research indicates that higher levels of religious belief and practice (known in social science as religiosity) is associated with better mental health."

I think that study is probably flawed.

Whitley is not referring to a single study, but rather a comprehensive review of over 700 studies.

He cites Harold G. Koenig, "Research on Religion, Spirituality, and Mental Health: A Review," The Canadian Journal of Psychiatry vol. 54 iss. 5, pgs. 283"291, which concludes:

While some studies report no association between religious involvement and mental health, and a handful of studies have reported negatives associations, the majority (476 of 724 quantitative studies prior to the year 2000, based on a systematic review) reported statistically significant positive associations.

. . .

[S]ystematic research published in the mental health literature to date does not support the argument that religious involvement usually has adverse effects on mental health. Rather, in general, studies of subjects in different settings (such as medical, psychiatric, and the general population), from different ethnic backgrounds (such as Caucasian, African American, Hispanic, and Native American), in different age groups (young, middle-aged, and elderly), and in different locations (such as the United States and Canada, Europe, and countries in the East) find that religious involvement is related to better coping with stress and less depression, suicide, anxiety, and substance abuse.

It would appear, then, that in general religious adherence correlates strongly with better mental health, which fundamentally undercuts your argument.

The reason I think it's flawed is because I've personally experienced mental problems from religion, and I've seen a lot of it in other people.

Anecdotal evidence provides insufficient warrant to claim that the amassed research of hundreds of psychological studies is flawed.

[bluethread]

I think that study is probably flawed. The reason I think it's flawed is because I've personally experienced mental problems from religion, and I've seen a lot of it in other people.

So, you believe that anecdotal evidence trumps published research. Interesting, if I recall you have soundly criticized that approach in the past. Oh yah, that was when it was used to support views you do not like. I get it.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 17 by bluethread]

On the other hand, that research you have provided is not on topic.
You successfully segued the topic to religious groups, when the OP is clearly about individuals. J- clearly didn't wish to insult all religious people, as you have made the OP to be.
I mean, no study would say all religious people are nuts, there are too many of them, and they would get out the pitch-forks and torches in a heartbeat!
That and it is against forum rules.

[Jagella]

[Replying to post 16 by historia]

It would appear, then, that in general religious adherence correlates strongly with better mental health, which fundamentally undercuts your argument.

Let's go back and read what I said in the OP:

I'm crazy as anybody here, both believer and unbeliever, can clearly see. I'm very deluded. Yet, with just a few changes of the words I'm using, you can uncover basic Christian theology.

Why, then, is Christianity and other religions not mental illness?

You're not answering the question for discussion. I described religion, in particular Christianity, as a delusion akin to that of a person believing she is in telepathic contact with space aliens who will destroy the earth. I did not ask if religion is "beneficial" emotionally.

But let's go ahead with the research you uncovered. If you think those findings are valid, then go ahead and try religion if you haven't tried it already. It should make you feel just great if those researchers are right. Let us all know how you make out.

And I don't think the religion you try needs to be Christianity. No doubt "religious involvement" might include astrology, numerology, or even water witching! Heck, why not go with the ET religion I posted in the OP? It might really help you to be emotionally stable to think that the world will soon be fried by space aliens.

Anecdotal evidence provides insufficient warrant to claim that the amassed research of hundreds of psychological studies is flawed.

So I'm supposed to disregard what I know to be true about the psychological effects of religion and accept what you've posted in this forum?

In any case, have you got in touch with the snake handlers yet? Holding those writhing vipers will do wonders for your state of mind, I'm sure!

[Jagella]

I think that study is probably flawed. The reason I think it's flawed is because I've personally experienced mental problems from religion, and I've seen a lot of it in other people.

So, you believe that anecdotal evidence trumps published research. Interesting, if I recall you have soundly criticized that approach in the past. Oh yah, that was when it was used to support views you do not like. I get it.

Oh, but you're wrong. I know from personal experience that religion is emotionally harmful. That's not anecdotal experience. Yes, for you it might be anecdotal evidence, but for me it's empirical evidence.

In any event, you are welcome to believe those studies that conclude that religion is so great for a person's psychological health. Go ahead and try religion if you haven't tried one already. That way you can know from personal experience if it really works and prove me wrong. You've got a world of choices to make! Faith healing, poison drinking, flying planes into buildings, and setting yourself on fire are just a few of the religious joys that might just stabilize you emotionally.

But like I told historia, those studies are not really relevant to the issue I raised in the OP. I described mental illness as a delusion, and since religions like Christianity are like a delusion about ETs a person might have, then religion is also a delusion. And delusion is a kind of mental illness. I'm asking the members here to discuss the differences between an ET-delusion and religion if there are any differences.