Revelation: Its Grand Climax at Hand!

[Jagella]

The Christian prophecies of "the end of the age" have been with us at least as long as Christianity has haunted our dreams with visions of strange beasts and the destruction or damnation of the majority of humankind. The faithful have eagerly looked to the sky hoping to see Jesus riding in on "the clouds of heaven" to take them away while the rest of us suffer horrible punishments. But to their chagrin, it was just one disappointment after another when Jesus failed to show, and they returned to their boring little homes living out the rest of their lives like we all do.

One of the greatest disappointments the faithful have endured waiting for their grand apocalypse occurred on October 22, 1844. William Miller, a Baptist preacher, led a large group of followers to believe that Daniel's cleansing of the sanctuary was to occur on that date.

I hope I don't need to explain it didn't happen.

Undaunted, Christians continued to look for the return of Jesus. An entire sect, the Seventh-Day Adventists, grew up over this failed prophecy. They revised Miller's prediction saying that October 22 was not yet Jesus' return but the beginning of the final atonement and the "cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary." This event leads up to the second coming of Christ.

So Jesus is still coming if never arriving. Other groups have been caught up in this expectation, and they just never give up believing that someday soon Jesus will come bursting through the clouds. No number of failed prophecies of the end seems to stop them in their expectation.

One of these other groups are the Jehovah's Witnesses led by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. I was recently reading their book, Revelation: Its Grand Climax at Hand! As the title suggests, the return of Christ is at the very doorstep. I believe this book is no longer in print. Perhaps one of the reasons it is no longer published by the Watchtower is that it was copyrighted in 1988. As I write this post, it has been about thirty years since that time. Apparently thirty years is way too long to qualify as "at hand." To save face, the Watchtower no doubt pulled the book.

In any case, what I find odd about this book in particular is that the Watchtower bothered to copyright it. If Jesus and the apocalypse were nigh, then it seems to me that trivialities like reserving rights to a printed work would be a rather low priority. Did the Jehovah's Witnesses think that they might end up suing a plagiarizer in court as the "great tribulation" raged the four horsemen meting out plagues to punish the earth?

You just can't be too sure, I suppose.

There's nothing new about these failed prophecies. Other failed predictions by Jehovah's Witnesses involved dates of the second coming in the years 1878, 1881, 1914, 1918 and 1925. When Jesus failed to show, the "prophecies" were always reinterpreted to mean something different.

Observe that the knowledge of these failures won't sway many Jehovah's Witnesses from continuing to believe the end is nigh. Sure, some of them wise up and leave only to be branded as "apostates" and shunned by those who remain faithful to the Watchtower.

But don't get me wrong. I'm not just picking on Jehovah's Witnesses. We've had many prophecies from many Christians throughout their history. "They end is near!" The fact that they keep getting these predictions wrong doesn't stop them from continuing to believe what they do.

Will this apocalyptic delusion ever end?

[Jagella]

[Replying to post 29 by JehovahsWitness]

...I think my work here is done.

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[JehovahsWitness]

...I think my work here is done.

Not according to 1 Peter 3:15. Both Jagella and I have asked questions you have failed to answer. Is there some reason you are disobeying this scripture?

I don't interpret the scripture as an obligation to answer all questions asked of me, since I take 1 Peter 3:15 in the light of other related scriptures on the topic.


Best Regards,
JW

NOTE: Of course I would never say that I apply any of these scriptures to anyone on this forum but they are I believe part of the bible canon.

PROVERBS 26:4
Don't answer the foolish arguments of fools, or you will become as foolish as they are. - New Living Translation

MATTHEW 7:6
Do not give dogs what is holy; do not throw your pearls before swine. - Jesus Christ

[Tcg]

I don't interpret the scripture as an obligation to answer all questions asked of me, since I take 1 Peter 3:15 in the light of other related scriptures on the topic.

What other related scripture are you referring to?

How do they relate specifically to your refusal to address the question Jagella and I asked you?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 33 by Tcg]

I believe if you read my post carefully you will be able to deduce (through the use of critical thinking skills in analysing the words in that post) which scriptures in theory at least I may possibly have in mind when I am making my personal decision as to whether I will or will not answer somebody on any given topic in life .

Of course as I said, I would never say here (and I am not saying) that I am applying them to anyone in this forum but they are scriptures I am aware exist.

JW

[Jagella]

The book of Revelation speaks of "a great crowd" containing individuals from all nationalities and language groups coming out (surviving) a epic destruction (Harmageddon). The bible book of Revelation depicts this group as rejoicing, not because others have died but because they have survived and are happy to be moving towards the blessings survivors are promised.

After being told that Jesus will kill all of the "incorrigibly wicked," I think at least some Jehovah's Witnesses will rejoice over their deaths. That celebration might be much like the rejoicing on the part of some Muslims when the World Trade Center was destroyed.





But I really don't believe that most Jehovah's Witnesses want us to die--they just see it as the price to pay for their paradise.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 35 by Jagella]

I've read a lot of fantasy and science fiction books. It's telling that what JW hopes for/believes will happen sounds just like the villains of those books.

The first one that comes to mind is Robert Jordan and his Wheel of Time series. In it, the Dark One is a primordial spirit trapped by the Creator at the beginning of time in a mystical other dimensional prison. He has followers who believe that eventually he will break free and destroy all of creation and remake it to his own design. The followers hope for, and believe, that in exchange for their loyalty, they will live in the new world and rule it forever. The fact that what they want requires the deaths of everyone else is what makes these people the villains.

Sound familiar?

JW has it crossed your mind as to why Jagella myself and others reject what it is you believe? It's because what you believe requires our deaths and tries to spin it as a good thing, just like the villains did in my novels. In those stories, the heroes would be offered immortality and eternal rule over others...as long as they bent knee to a mystical spirit, promised to obey him and work towards the destruction of the world as they knew it.
Other than being pacifists, JW beliefs are, in their basic themes, similar to the Darkfriends of wheel of time.

[Jagella]

[Replying to post 36 by rikuoamero]

Sound familiar?

Yes. Of course many people and not just Jehovah's Witnesses relish the thought of the death and destruction of those they hate.

Speaking of which, on this thread we have been told that Jehovah's Witnesses do not hope to see people dead courtesy of Jesus, the great hitman in the sky. Here's a video, Horror and Paradise for Jehovah's Witnesses Armageddon Assembly talk jw.org, that demonstrates otherwise.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 36 by rikuoamero]

Sound familiar?

Yes. Of course many people and not just Jehovah's Witnesses relish the thought of the death and destruction of those they hate.

Speaking of which, on this thread we have been told that Jehovah's Witnesses do not hope to see people dead courtesy of Jesus, the great hitman in the sky. Here's a video, Horror and Paradise for Jehovah's Witnesses Armageddon Assembly talk jw.org, that demonstrates otherwise.

Thanks for the link. Certainly puts to rest the metaphor JW used earlier, of rescue workers looking for survivors. The person in the clip quotes Jeremiah 25:33, where it says those who are killed will not be mourned and body parts will litter the streets and that no-one will mourn or bury them.
I remember asking JW a question earlier, about if he and his would actually look for survivors, and act as rescue workers in Armageddon. He hasn't answered that.

[Jagella]

[Replying to post 38 by rikuoamero]

Thanks for the link. Certainly puts to rest the metaphor JW used earlier, of rescue workers looking for survivors. The person in the clip quotes Jeremiah 25:33, where it says those who are killed will not be mourned and body parts will litter the streets and that no-one will mourn or bury them.

Think of the mentally deranged people who might be attracted to this kind of stuff. Like I've said, I don't know if religion makes people crazy, or if crazy people make religion--or both. But there's definitely a relationship between religion and mental illness that is being either ignored or denied.

I remember asking JW a question earlier, about if he and his would actually look for survivors, and act as rescue workers in Armageddon. He hasn't answered that.

I think they believe that Jesus cleans up the mess for them.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 35 by Jagella]

No one celebrated 911, that is simply negative propaganda.
Stop spreading hate - there is already too much in the world.