Who wrote the Gospels?

Tart · Post by **Tart** » Sat May 12, 2018 3:27 pm

Probably Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John... Peter probably wrote one too... He certainly wrote other Epistles. Likely? That he wrote about his experiences with Jesus in a Gospel? Very likely.

There very may be many more authentic Gospels in existence. We probably dont even know the half of the amount of documents that are written about Jesus.. But there are hundreds... And probably hundreds more...

How likely is it for Mark, Matthew, Luke, actually existing? Like real people? Its very likely....

How likely is it that at least some of these books where in collaboration with eyewitnesses testimony? Very likely

Far as im concerned, the best history we can research is the history of the Church and the Temple. The Jewish Temple all the way down to Jesus, and Jesus all the way up to our church today. Beginning right from its base... Jesus, and the Disciples, all the way up the line. Maybe some of the best history you can research

In fact, im going to Rome, in 3 Weeks, did you know the Church goes back to the First Century? It is the Vatican, it was biult on Peters Grave... It exists

Tart · Post by **Tart** » Mon May 14, 2018 2:44 pm

JoeyKnothead wrote:
JoeyKnothead wrote: From the OP:

Who wrote the Gospels?

Probably Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John... Peter probably wrote one too...
"Probably" is as confirmatory as "I sure hope so".

Peter probably wrote one too... He certainly wrote other Epistles. Likely? That he wrote about his experiences with Jesus in a Gospel? Very likely.
Please present your math on these likely's and probably's, and let's see if they hold up to scientific / mathematical scrutiny.

There very may be many more authentic Gospels in existence.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't!

We probably dont even know the half of the amount of documents that are written about Jesus..
Probably.

Present your math!

But there are hundreds... And probably hundreds more...
Probably.

Or problemly?

You assert claims as to probablitude, but present nothing in support of such probablitudes.

PRESENT YOUR MATH!

How likely is it for Mark, Matthew, Luke, actually existing? Like real people? Its very likely....
I propose it's "very likely" you ain't gonna be able to show any greater probability that either you, or these folks speak truth, than you can present the probability they wasn't 'em a bunch of liars. And that you ain't one you one of 'em.

PRESENT YOUR MATH!

How likely is it that at least some of these books where in collaboration with eyewitnesses testimony? Very likely
PRESENT YOUR MATH!

Far as im concerned, the best history we can research is the history of the Church and the Temple.
Far as I'm concerned, you've not presented you one bit of data to support your claims of "probably", or "likely".

I propose, it's most probably, most likely you'll declare yourself immune to site rules regarding supporting your claims, and that most probably, most likely, you'll expect your preachin' to be some compelling argument, without it is, you ever show you how compelling it is your argument is. Please, challenge my statement.

You're a PREACHER! You do NOT suppport your claims with anything other'n your own declarations*! (*evidence available upon request)

Present your math!

Or be forever known as the preacher we already know you to be!

The Jewish Temple all the way down to Jesus, and Jesus all the way up to our church today. Beginning right from its base... Jesus, and the Disciples, all the way up the line. Maybe some of the best history you can research
All the way down, and all the way up, and them Jews, and Jesus, and how 'bout all that.

I lack me the sufficient mental capacity to understand how your statement here presents it the math on your probables and hope to bes.

In fact, im going to Rome, in 3 Weeks
Going somewhere don't mean ya speak truth.

Nor does it mean in three weeks, you'll present you the math on your challenged claims.

did you know the Church goes back to the First Century?
Argumentum ad oldium

You're a preacher of unsupportable, unevidenced claims. You hope to sneak your claims into debate, under the guise of "It's probably, only it is, I ain't got me no math to support me such a contention".

I'm struck by how much it is, "probable" sounds it so much like "liar" - in my language.

It is the Vatican, it was biult on Peters Grave... It exists
These are guys who wear fancy dresses and shoes and hats and such, who cover 'em up the abuses of their pedophiles.

PRESENT YOUR MATH!

OR BE EXPOSED AS A FRAUD!

Who wrote the Gospels?

Folks that can't show they speak truth! And think if they mention probablities and likelies, without presentin' 'em the math behind 'em, well that'll get ya to believe 'em!

.
Why is it tart doesn't respond to my challenges?

For it is, he's a preacher, not a debater!

He can't show he speaks truth, and so he hides from my challenges!

Preachers preach, and liars lie!

Come on Joey, i would be happy to give you reasoning, but a mathematical equation? Get real dude... Are you guys really this unreasonable?

Tart · Post by **Tart** » Mon May 14, 2018 2:47 pm

Back to topic...

What reasoning, or evidence do you guys have that would raise doubt that Mark, Matthew, Luke and John didnt write the Gospels, and that Church tradition is wrong?

Tart · Post by **Tart** » Mon May 14, 2018 2:53 pm

Tcg wrote:
JoeyKnothead wrote:

Why is it tart doesn't respond to my challenges?

We can only guess about the why. We know for a fact that he has not provided any support for his claims.

Is that because he doesn't have any evidence to support his claims and therefore he simply throws out names hoping we won't notice his total lack of evidence? This very well could be the reason he doesn't respond to your challenge, but all we can say for sure is that he hasn't responded.

We must stick to the facts and not surmise why that is so. The facts are that his posts have not contained any facts. They rely on total supposition. Until he explains why that is so, we must be satisfied with the fact that this is so.

I think i have certainly supported my claims... I see many reasons to believe Mark, Matthew, and Luke existed. We have documents mentioning these people, and they were also surrounded by real people...

What good reason to we have to believe Paul, Peter, James, John, Luke, Mark, Stephan, Matthew, Jude didnt exist.. What good reason do we have to say any of these men didnt exist?

We have evidence telling us they do exist.

And what do you guys have to raise doubt that any of these men couldnt have written the Gospels?

(edit: if you think anything i am saying is not supported by evidence, feel free to specifically point it out and id be happy to discuss it with you)

Willum · Post by **Willum** » Mon May 14, 2018 3:02 pm

[Replying to post 12 by Tart]

They tell magical unverifiable stories.
That is usually enough for a reasonable person to believe such things don't exist.

You don't believe in Santa Clause do you?
I guess Santa is surrounded by Ms. Clause, Rudolph, Donner and Dancer.
Certainly Rudolph will vouch for Santa, just as Santa will vouch for Donner.
I imagine that Santa would vouch for Paul and Jesus, wouldn't they?

Paul vouches for Mark, Mark for Peter, and so on, just as Luke would vouch for Darth, Han and Leia.

I can't imagine it any other way, can you?

Tart · Post by **Tart** » Mon May 14, 2018 3:31 pm

Willum wrote: [Replying to post 12 by Tart]

They tell magical unverifiable stories.
That is usually enough for a reasonable person to believe such things don't exist.

You don't believe in Santa Clause do you?
I guess Santa is surrounded by Ms. Clause, Rudolph, Donner and Dancer.
Certainly Rudolph will vouch for Santa, just as Santa will vouch for Donner.
I imagine that Santa would vouch for Paul and Jesus, wouldn't they?

Paul vouches for Mark, Mark for Peter, and so on, just as Luke would vouch for Darth, Han and Leia.

I can't imagine it any other way, can you?

Ok, well im not interested in responding to false equivalences any more... Its gotten old, and you guys never seem like you want to correct it anyways... You can continue on all you like, but i will no longer amuse such arguments becuase I think we should have logical discussions...

So you really believe Mark, Matthew, Luke didnt exist?

Willum · Post by **Willum** » Mon May 14, 2018 3:43 pm

[Replying to post 15 by Tart]

And we will always be waiting for a single reason to believe they aren't false equivalences.

I can't think of a reason anyone should believe the Apostles or Jesus existed. They seem about as institutionalized as Superman, with similar impacts and proofs.

I mean, Lazarus should have had tremendous impact on history, but he didn't. There should be carpentry by Jesus, but, as much evidence exists for that as does the destruction left by Spiderman vs Doctor Octopus.

Am I wrong?

Tart · Post by **Tart** » Mon May 14, 2018 3:44 pm

Willum wrote: [Replying to post 15 by Tart]

And we will always be waiting for a single reason to believe they aren't false equivalences.

I can't think of a reason anyone should believe the Apostles or Jesus existed. They seem about as institutionalized as Superman, with similar impacts and proofs.

I mean, Lazarus should have had tremendous impact on history, but he didn't. There should be carpentry by Jesus, but, as much evidence exists for that as does the destruction left by Spiderman vs Doctor Octopus.

Am I wrong?

Do you believe Paul existed?

Willum · Post by **Willum** » Mon May 14, 2018 4:08 pm

[Replying to post 17 by Tart]

If I don't believe Julius Caesar existed, then I need to understand why history occurred without him.
If I believe in Julius, then this explains a very great deal.

If I do not believe in Paul, then I need to understand how magical stories were recorded without him.
If I believe in him, then nothing reasonable is explained.

I can make a similar analogy for Superman, or more appropriately, Lazarus.

Belief in Paul, only explains fairy tales, so no, I do not believe in him. There is no reason to, and many reasons not to believe in magic stories.

Tart · Post by **Tart** » Mon May 14, 2018 4:33 pm

Willum wrote: [Replying to post 17 by Tart]

If I don't believe Julius Caesar existed, then I need to understand why history occurred without him.
If I believe in Julius, then this explains a very great deal.

If I do not believe in Paul, then I need to understand how magical stories were recorded without him.
If I believe in him, then nothing reasonable is explained.

I can make a similar analogy for Superman, or more appropriately, Lazarus.

Belief in Paul, only explains fairy tales, so no, I do not believe in him. There is no reason to, and many reasons not to believe in magic stories.

Ok, well we are discussing about the authors of the Gospels... This isnt about any miracles or "magical" things...

Here is what we know,
1) The Gospels exist
2) They had to come from somewhere

But im sorry man, if you dont believe Paul existed, im just going to cut off this debate with your right here... No one believes Paul didnt exist, and im not even interested in assuming such things...

The things atheism leads people to believe... Scholars have called this kind of thinking as believing in modern myths... They say, if you believe Jesus was a myth you believe a modern myth...

Its just astounding to what lengths we have atheist denying as true, so they can hold their beliefs..

Willum · Post by **Willum** » Mon May 14, 2018 4:39 pm

[Replying to post 19 by Tart]

Yes, they came from the Counsil of Nicea.
That Council alleged that it collected the works of the apostles, translated them, and produced the first version of the Bible, then destroyed those previously existing works - for no adequately explainable reason.

So, where did they come from?
The same kinds of minds that brought you other myths.

The same kinds of people who wrote you Spiderman.

Why should we believe otherwise?
So where did they come from?
How do you know they were real, and not products designed to get you to:

Romans 13:1-14
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. .
1 Peter 2:13-14
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good.
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