The Mental-Illness Theory of Religion

[Jagella]

There are some viable theories of religious belief, and to posit that religious belief is a mental illness is one such theory.

It should be instructive to begin to discuss this theory with an analogy that should clarify that psychological disturbance underlies belief in gods and the supernatural. Let's say that I am sincerely claiming that I am in touch with powerful extraterrestrials. I say I communicate with them telepathically. I can and do ask them to use their highly-advanced technology to help me, and they grant my requests. I testify that their help to me has included their curing my illnesses and altering the weather for me. When skeptics ask about my ET friends, I explain that the skeptics need to please these ETs by accepting their existence. Otherwise, the skeptics will receive nothing from them!

It gets even better. I am certain that one day soon these ETs will arrive on earth from space with a spectacular display of their most advanced technologies. They will alter the light-refraction traits of the atmosphere to darken the sun and make the moon blood-red. They'll even make it appear that the stars are falling to the earth! And if that's not impressive enough, they will incinerate all people who have refused to believe in them with death-ray energy beams. Those of us who have faithfully followed these ETs will be teleported into their spacecraft to be taken away to live in paradise forever on their planet, Mumbo-Jumbo.

I'm crazy as anybody here, both believer and unbeliever, can clearly see. I'm very deluded. Yet, with just a few changes of the words I'm using, you can uncover basic Christian theology.

Why, then, is Christianity and other religions not mental illness?

[alexxcJRO]

[Replying to post 149 by alexxcJRO]
[sarcasm]Yes, I believe that GW and Blair are mentally ill. [/sarcasm]

Can you be serious for 1 min please.
I am asking if you genuinely believe GW and Blair are mentally ill.

Q: Do you genuinely believe GW and Blair are mentally ill ?(Yes/No question)

[Replying to post 149 by alexxcJRO]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_hysteria
Apparently your ability to perform a little research is compromised as well.

Nonsense dear sir.

It's not the same thing.

I already read the wiki page.

Mass hysteria means a contagious exaggerated or uncontrollable emotion or excitement that spreads through a population as a result of rumors or fear.

We are talking about hallucination(visual, auditory, olfactory).

"In sociology and psychology, mass hysteria (also known as collective hysteria, group hysteria, or collective obsessional behavior) is a phenomenon that transmits collective illusions of threats, whether real or imaginary, through a population in society as a result of rumors and fear (memory acknowledgement).[1][2]
In medicine, the term is used to describe the spontaneous manifestation (production of chemicals in the body) of the same or similar hysterical physical symptoms by more than one person.[3][4]
A common type of mass hysteria occurs when a group of people believe they are suffering from a similar disease or ailment,[5] sometimes referred to as mass psychogenic illness or epidemic hysteria.["
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_hysteria

Like i said:
There is no such thing as a mass hallucination.
I did not find any credible, psychiatric source talking about mass hallucination. I did not find any mention of mass hallucinations in the scientific literature.
You are free to prove me otherwise.

[Jagella]

Why, then, is Christianity and other religions not mental illness?

You argue well enough, Jagella. The problem with parallels is they aren't - what is true for the analogy may not be true for the situation under debate. The same criticism applies to Christ's parables; they have limited validity.

As for people being insane, it is a truth generally acknowledged that genius is a close friend of insanity; truth has a funny way of appearing in embarrassing situations.

I agree with your idea that religious scenarios are fabrications. However, there is still the possibility that in the midst of the rubbish and human debris there lies a golden truth, not the one seen by the fantasists. And perhaps, in our eagerness to dismiss and parody, we become blind to that truth.

I haven't seen it, mind you.

I'm not sure if I understand your answer. Are you saying that religion is not mental illness?

My own thoughts on this issue is that to conclude that religiosity is mental illness is only valid if the person under consideration truly believes outlandish religious claims despite her knowing of good evidence to the contrary. Many religious people might not really believe those claims and have other motives for claiming that they do believe those claims. For example, a clergyman might be an atheist but continues to testify to his supposed theism to keep his job.

But that's another topic for another thread coming soon.

[bluethread]

Thanks for the answer. So as long as people live "productive lives" what they think is true no matter how much it differs from reality does not make them mentally ill. Is it correct to say that my ET belief does not make me mentally ill as long as I live a "productive life"?

Yes, that would be my assessment. I might consider you a little qwerky, but isn't everyone?

One possible counter example to your productive-person-is-not-mentally-ill claim is that of Vincent van Gogh. He was a towering artistic genius who produced over 2,000 paintings. Tragically, he committed suicide when he was only 37 years old.

He was mentally ill.

The operative phrase is "he committed suicide when he was only 37 years old." That said, based on that thesis, artisic genius could be considered a mental illness. Suicide is much more common among artistic types than the general public. In fact, high intellect could also be considered a mental illness, because suicide is more common among intellectuals than in the general public.

I hope you can understand just how important it is for the mentally ill to get help. I fear that we may disregard mental illness if it is in the form of religiosity, and mental illness often does take that form.

Theists are indeed not immune to mental illness, but I think you are mistaking what Marx referred to as an opiate for a symptom. An opiate can cause mental illness, but it can also be a tool in curing mental illness. So, even if one agrees with Marx's assessment of theism and religious practice, that does not make those who engage in those things mentally ill.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 151 by alexxcJRO]

Contrary-same nonsense dear sir.
I am afraid that because there is no term for an observation, does not make the observation incorrect.

Religion is used to effect mass madness: Genocide, war, and so on.

If you choose to deflect based on definitions, good for you. You and other users can hold up a dictionary to discuss your ideas.

Not awfully useful for progressive thought, but there you are.

[alexxcJRO]

[Replying to post 151 by alexxcJRO]

Contrary-same nonsense dear sir.
I am afraid that because there is no term for an observation, does not make the observation incorrect.

Religion is used to effect mass madness: Genocide, war, and so on.

If you choose to deflect based on definitions, good for you. You and other users can hold up a dictionary to discuss your ideas.

Not awfully useful for progressive thought, but there you are.

Its not just about definitions.
Mass hysteria its a proven phenomenon.
On the other hand mass hallucination is not.
Until I see compelling evidence for mass hallucinations(two or more people having the same auditory, visual, olfactive hallucination) I will refrain for belief.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 155 by alexxcJRO]

Mass hysteria then. I thought they were the same thing, my mistake.
The point being religion invokes insanities such as war, genocide and the many other abberations religious people say are OK when God, God's chosen people, or they themselves do them.

[Jagella]

[Replying to post 153 by bluethread]

Yes, that would be my assessment. I might consider you a little qwerky, but isn't everyone?

Well, no, not everybody thinks that the world's unbelievers will be fried by death-ray energy beams. You honestly think that's "a little quirky"?

...even if one agrees with Marx's assessment of theism and religious practice, that does not make those who engage in those things mentally ill.

Oh sure. The religious can be con artists rather than mentally ill. Charlatans know it's easy to sucker people when those people are convinced that the charlatans speak for invisible people in the sky. It's an easy way to make money assuming one doesn't have a conscience.

[bluethread]

[Replying to post 153 by bluethread]

Yes, that would be my assessment. I might consider you a little qwerky, but isn't everyone?

Well, no, not everybody thinks that the world's unbelievers will be fried by death-ray energy beams. You honestly think that's "a little quirky"?

That is not what I said and you know it. I implied that everyone is a little qwerky in their own way. For example, you are an atheist who seems to be obsessed with theism. That seems qwerky to me. There are a lot of things I do not believe in, but I don't spend much time arguing about those things. Your example is a case in point. If that person's belief in the ET apocalypse does not effects the way that one lives to any great degree, I just consider him to be a bit qwerky and go about my way. I really do not have much time for evangelicals, regardless of whether they are theistic or atheistic.

...even if one agrees with Marx's assessment of theism and religious practice, that does not make those who engage in those things mentally ill.

Oh sure. The religious can be con artists rather than mentally ill. Charlatans know it's easy to sucker people when those people are convinced that the charlatans speak for invisible people in the sky. It's an easy way to make money assuming one doesn't have a conscience.

So, you are saying that you are willing to admit that theism is not a mental illness, as long as the theist who is not mentally ill is a con artist. How gracious of you.

[Jagella]

[Replying to post 158 by bluethread]

Well, no, not everybody thinks that the world's unbelievers will be fried by death-ray energy beams. You honestly think that's "a little quirky"?

That is not what I said and you know it. I implied that everyone is a little qwerky in their own way.

But that's what I did think you meant.

I implied that everyone is a little qwerky in their own way. For example, you are an atheist who seems to be obsessed with theism. That seems qwerky to me.

Did you ever hear the old, wise saying: "Know thy enemy"? Some of the world's top experts on theism are atheists.

There are a lot of things I do not believe in, but I don't spend much time arguing about those things.

I do believe in religion. It's very real.

Your example is a case in point. If that person's belief in the ET apocalypse does not effects the way that one lives to any great degree, I just consider him to be a bit qwerky and go about my way.

If that person was a psychopath ready to hasten the ET apocalypse by killing people, would you just go about your way? And if you think I'm exaggerating the danger of these kinds of delusions, then consider Charles Manson. He was an avid Bible reader, and he ordered mass murder to bring on his own version of the apocalypse.

Religious delusion is dangerous, and it's time we stopped hiding our heads in the sand denying it.

I really do not have much time for evangelicals, regardless of whether they are theistic or atheistic.

Then why are you debating in this forum?

So, you are saying that you are willing to admit that theism is not a mental illness, as long as the theist who is not mentally ill is a con artist. How gracious of you.

I won't hide my head in the sand.

[alexxcJRO]

[Replying to post 155 by alexxcJRO]

Mass hysteria then. I thought they were the same thing, my mistake.
The point being religion invokes insanities such as war, genocide and the many other abberations religious people say are OK when God, God's chosen people, or they themselves do them.

Mass hysteria is not a symptom of mental illness.
Mass hysteria happens all the time. Most of the time it does not involve religion.
The majority of religious people(Christians, Islamists) dont know their holy book contain the insanities you invoked. They dont even read their holy book.
The ones the bring justification usually for war, genocides, slavery and so one are/have been apologists, countries leaders, military leaders, slave-owners who usually have/had alternative motives for doing this.
Also for example the Buddhist holy book does not contain this insanities.
Hinduism, Confucianism are rather benign also. The same goes for Scientology, New Age religious, Deism, Panentheism.

So generalizing and saying all/the majority of religious people are mentally ill, insane is rather erroneous.