The Mental-Illness Theory of Religion

[Jagella]

There are some viable theories of religious belief, and to posit that religious belief is a mental illness is one such theory.

It should be instructive to begin to discuss this theory with an analogy that should clarify that psychological disturbance underlies belief in gods and the supernatural. Let's say that I am sincerely claiming that I am in touch with powerful extraterrestrials. I say I communicate with them telepathically. I can and do ask them to use their highly-advanced technology to help me, and they grant my requests. I testify that their help to me has included their curing my illnesses and altering the weather for me. When skeptics ask about my ET friends, I explain that the skeptics need to please these ETs by accepting their existence. Otherwise, the skeptics will receive nothing from them!

It gets even better. I am certain that one day soon these ETs will arrive on earth from space with a spectacular display of their most advanced technologies. They will alter the light-refraction traits of the atmosphere to darken the sun and make the moon blood-red. They'll even make it appear that the stars are falling to the earth! And if that's not impressive enough, they will incinerate all people who have refused to believe in them with death-ray energy beams. Those of us who have faithfully followed these ETs will be teleported into their spacecraft to be taken away to live in paradise forever on their planet, Mumbo-Jumbo.

I'm crazy as anybody here, both believer and unbeliever, can clearly see. I'm very deluded. Yet, with just a few changes of the words I'm using, you can uncover basic Christian theology.

Why, then, is Christianity and other religions not mental illness?

[alexxcJRO]

[Replying to post 179 by alexxcJRO]

Listen, I know what I am saying, and I know I am expanding the definition of insanity to encompass groups.
I know and understand that insanity under current definitions does not cover groups.
Yet I am trying to have a conversation.
If you are going to be pedantic and unwilling to discuss how mental illness applies to groups we can't have a conversation.

Because if we remain chained to the concepts you propose, well, I agree with you.
YAWN.
Because we haven't spoken about what is going on when people use imaginary creatures (gods) to excuse mass murder.

I think/propose that is a mass mental disorder. One perhaps not identified nor defined.
But what do you want to call it, for example? and if you name the beast, do you further wish to discuss it?

If not, I am not interested in discussing it further, because, duh, it's obvious.

And whatever you want to call it, are you going to discuss it being a deficiency? A mental deficiency? I believe it is. Just not one respected conventionally.

But by all means, keep throwing what I already understand to confound an argument I am not really making...

Its called mass indoctrination, brain washing.

People are indoctrinated from young age to believe: God exists, God hates gays, our leaders are anointed and picked by God, sinners go to everlasting torment and punishment).

I dont have any mental deficiency or mental disorder yet I still believed this nonsense till the age of 18 because I was indoctrinated from young. I saw all people believed this(conformity jumps in). I concluded it must be true.

I havent really read the nasty parts of the bible. I never analyzed the evidence for God or the bible, never analyzed logically the bible, the concepts in it neither did I any training in philosophy and correct logical thinking. Did not know what a logical fallacy is.

My scientific knowledge was severely lacking. I was ignorant.
I also believed in all sorts of things like ghosts, aliens.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 181 by alexxcJRO]

I think that is what I was trying to get at with the OP, "Can delusions be taught." But that isn't this OP, so in trying to fit mass insanity into this OP, I did outreach myself.

It loops into the concept of if insanity can be taught, and, if it can, well, there we are again.
Can insanity be taught?

It seems to me, it can be, and is - in the form of the socially acceptable; religion.

Where people are taught to believe, as you say, It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.

It IS taught insanity, except it isn't an... well words are failing me, because it s insane to kill for an entity that can't be shown to exist. It is irrational to kill one person, no less groups and peoples for this being.

But it isn't insanity... yet it is insane.

In that thread I suggested a new word (I know, the hubris!): Doccalum - a taught falsehood, it seems like we need a new word for this aspect of religion, as it bridges to mass taught insanity.

Basically the same kind of insanity that we stereotype cults as having: Irrational beliefs accepted by groups or masses.

As a result of this OP, I am convinced that invoking imaginary creatures as an excuse for war is insanity - perhaps not the DSM-V definition, but one requiring a new definition, one that, once the psychosis is defined, can be treated.

Then we can begin to treat at least one facet of mankind's madness...
Well, one can dream, anyway.

Best regards,

[alexxcJRO]

It loops into the concept of if insanity can be taught, and, if it can, well, there we are again.
Can insanity be taught?
It IS taught insanity, except it isn't an... well words are failing me, because it s insane to kill for an entity that can't be shown to exist. It is irrational to kill one person, no less groups and peoples for this being.

This is nonsensical dear sir.

Lets take psychosis for example.
Either you have schizophrenia which is reason for your psychosis or not. Either you have you have been exposed to environmental(being raised in a city, cannabis use during adolescence, certain infections, parental age and poor nutrition during pregnancy) and genetic factors or not.
Either you have systemic lupus erythematosus which is the reason for your psychosis or not.
Either you have Alzheimer's disease, dementia with Lewy bodies, and Parkinson's disease which is the reason for your psychosis or not.
Either you have a tumor which is the reason for your psychosis or not.
Either you have child trauma which is the reason for your psychosis or not.
Mental illness cannot be taught. Either you have it or not. Either you have the physical conditions which lead to psychosis or not.

Basically the same kind of insanity that we stereotype cults as having: Irrational beliefs accepted by groups or masses.

Maybe ignorant morons do. Not trained psychiatrists, sociologists.
Cults beliefs are no more irrational then those from more popular religions. Cults beliefs are just different from social norm and more novel.
Christianity began as a cult first.


In the sociological classifications of religious movements, a cult is a social group with socially deviant or novel beliefs and practices,[3] although this is often unclear.[4][5][6] Other researchers present a less-organized picture of cults saying that they arise spontaneously around novel beliefs and practices.[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult

[Willum]

[Replying to post 183 by alexxcJRO]

I don't agree.
It is certainly not nonsense to describe an observation, even if the concept doesn't exist.
I don't think mass insanity is analogous to schizophrenia. Anymore than water is analogous to two hydrogens and one oxygen.
I don't understand why you don't understand that.
So I will create a term:

Either you have culmavesana, or you don't.
Where I will define a term so it can be spoken about:
culmavesana: A socially acceptable form of insanity where a group's agreed upon or common delusions are perceived as valid excuses for aberrant behaviors, such as mass-murder, slavery, and other socially disruptive situations, such as war.

[TSGracchus]

[Replying to post 184 by Willum]
We already have terms for collective insanity: patriotism, pietistism, racism, fandom, et al.
All come down to the same desired delusion: "I and those who agree with me are better than the rest of you. We may not be as pretty, as smart, as rich, as strong, or otherwise successful, but we have the right god, country or skin color, so we are better."
It is the delusion of those who cannot accept their own unimportance.

[alexxcJRO]

[Replying to post 183 by alexxcJRO]

I don't agree.
It is certainly not nonsense to describe an observation, even if the concept doesn't exist.
I don't think mass insanity is analogous to schizophrenia. Anymore than water is analogous to two hydrogens and one oxygen.
I don't understand why you don't understand that.
So I will create a term:

Either you have culmavesana, or you don't.
Where I will define a term so it can be spoken about:
culmavesana: A socially acceptable form of insanity where a group's agreed upon or common delusions are perceived as valid excuses for aberrant behaviors, such as mass-murder, slavery, and other socially disruptive situations, such as war.

Firstly,

Dear sir I was talking about psychosis.
Delusion is a symptom of psychosis.

Secondly,

We were talking about teaching mental-illness, taught insanity.

Every mental-illness has its physical causes to its roots.

You cannot teach mental-illness. Either you have the physical conditions which lead to psychosis or not. Its not an abstract concept that one can learn.

Q: Why is so hard to understand?

It like saying one is teaching an infectious disease and then suddenly we a mass-infection, an epidemic, pandemic. Thats just stupid.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 186 by alexxcJRO]

If you define mental illness as something that can't be taught, conversation over.
I was hoping to have a conversation with someone who recognize it could and is taught.

[alexxcJRO]

[Replying to post 186 by alexxcJRO]

If you define mental illness as something that can't be taught, conversation over.
I was hoping to have a conversation with someone who recognize it could and is taught.

You cant help yourself but babble nonsense.

Firstly,

I am not defining anything sir.

I am talking about a fact of reality.
Humans illness cannot be defined into existence dear sir. It manifests when certain physical conditions in the human body are meet.
This is true no matter if I exist and speak about or not.


Secondly,

You can manipulate certain physical conditions that lead to psychosis like give yourself drugs(Drug-induced psychosis) but you cannot learn yourself a psychotic disorder.

[FarWanderer]

I am talking about a fact of reality.
Humans illness cannot be defined into existence dear sir. It manifests when certain physical conditions in the human body are meet.

What about PTSD?

[alexxcJRO]

I am talking about a fact of reality.
Humans illness cannot be defined into existence dear sir. It manifests when certain physical conditions in the human body are meet.

What about PTSD?

Dear sir,

Either you have an imbalance between neurotransmitters serotonin and substance P which is the reason for your PTSD or not.

Either you have the trauma which is the reason for your imbalance between neurotransmitters serotonin and substance P or not.

To say you can teach someone/to many someone some imbalance between neurotransmitters serotonin and substance P or PTSD is moronic.