This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

[Overcomer]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 Do you see all these things? he asked. Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. Tell us, they said, when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?

4 Jesus answered: Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, I am the Messiah, and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 So when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation,[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel"let the reader understand" 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now"and never to be equaled again.

22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Messiah! or, There he is! do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 So if anyone tells you, There he is, out in the wilderness, do not go out; or, Here he is, in the inner rooms, do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 Immediately after the distress of those days


the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

[polonius]

Checkpoint posted:

Definition of "this" does not answer either of the thread op questions.

RESPONSE: Of course it does. This or the matter at hand.

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

RESPONSE: Those standing there with Jesus were obviously This generation ( not another generation).

They are not about definitions, but about what Jesus meant in using the term "this generation", and who he was referring to.

RESPONSE: Jesus used the correct meaning for those he was referring to, those standing with him.

.

The words "this generation" are not in the scriptures you quoted as evidence.

English Standard Version Matt 16:28
Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

Common sense dictates that some standing here are this or the present generation.

That is because, as used by Jesus, the meaning of those words had no place in what those scriptures convey.

Jesus is quoted as saying just what he meant. But of course to argue their belief, fundamentalists have to say otherwise.

[tam]

Mark 14:60-62 English Standard Version
60 And the high priest stood up in the midst and asked Jesus, Have you no answer to make? What is it that these men testify against you?[a]61 But he remained silent and made no answer. Again the high priest asked him, Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? 62 And Jesus said, I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.

I think this passage is the clincher. And puts Matthew 16.27-28 into context and perspective. The you in the passage from Mark indicates the high priest. Not some future generation.

And the "seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven" portion cannot be explained by anything other than the 2nd coming.

The high priest in the passage did not see this.

Yet.

Note that Christ does not state when the high priest will see this; only that he will see this.



Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Elijah John]

Mark 14:60-62 English Standard Version
60 And the high priest stood up in the midst and asked Jesus, Have you no answer to make? What is it that these men testify against you?[a]61 But he remained silent and made no answer. Again the high priest asked him, Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? 62 And Jesus said, I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.

I think this passage is the clincher. And puts Matthew 16.27-28 into context and perspective. The you in the passage from Mark indicates the high priest. Not some future generation.

And the "seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven" portion cannot be explained by anything other than the 2nd coming.

The high priest in the passage did not see this.

Yet.

Note that Christ does not state when the high priest will see this; only that he will see this.



Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

That is certainly a good and viable interpretation. But not quite convincing. If that were the case, why didn't Jesus say "when the dead will rise, and see...."?

[Checkpoint]

Checkpoint posted:

Definition of "this" does not answer either of the thread op questions.

RESPONSE: Of course it does. This or the matter at hand.

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

RESPONSE: Those standing there with Jesus were obviously This generation ( not another generation).

They are not about definitions, but about what Jesus meant in using the term "this generation", and who he was referring to.

RESPONSE: Jesus used the correct meaning for those he was referring to, those standing with him.

.

The words "this generation" are not in the scriptures you quoted as evidence.

English Standard Version Matt 16:28
Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

Common sense dictates that some standing here are this or the present generation.

That is because, as used by Jesus, the meaning of those words had no place in what those scriptures convey.

Jesus is quoted as saying just what he meant. But of course to argue their belief, fundamentalists have to say otherwise.

Jesus is quoted as saying just what he meant, yes.

This thread and this debate is about what he meant by "this generation", in Matthew 24:34.

What he meant by what he said does not come by assumption, but by looking at how he consistently used the word "generation" elsewhere.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 108 by polonius.advice]

RESPONSE: Those standing there with Jesus were obviously This generation ( not another generation).

RESPONSE: Jesus used the correct meaning for those he was referring to, those standing with him.

Common sense dictates that some standing here are this or the present generation.

I understand what you are saying and why you are saying it.

If only it was that simple and straightforward!

If only we were dealing with something written and spoken in our language and in our day.

If only we were not dealing with something written over 2000 years ago, in two languages foreign to us.

If only we were not dealing with the Bible, a book on religion, and with a man who did not fit into anyone's box.

[polonius]

Checkpoint posted:

Definition of "this" does not answer either of the thread op questions.

RESPONSE: Of course it does. This or the matter at hand.

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

RESPONSE: Those standing there with Jesus were obviously This generation ( not another generation).

They are not about definitions, but about what Jesus meant in using the term "this generation", and who he was referring to.

RESPONSE: Jesus used the correct meaning for those he was referring to, those standing with him.

.

The words "this generation" are not in the scriptures you quoted as evidence.

English Standard Version Matt 16:28
Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

Common sense dictates that some standing here are this or the present generation.

That is because, as used by Jesus, the meaning of those words had no place in what those scriptures convey.

Jesus is quoted as saying just what he meant. But of course to argue their belief, fundamentalists have to say otherwise.

Jesus is quoted as saying just what he meant, yes.

This thread and this debate is about what he meant by "this generation", in Matthew 24:34.

What he meant by what he said does not come by assumption, but by looking at how he consistently used the word "generation" elsewhere.

RESPONSE: No.

This thread is about which group of people Jesus promised his return during their lifetime to, " some of those standing here."

[polonius]

[Replying to post 108 by polonius.advice]

RESPONSE: Those standing there with Jesus were obviously This generation ( not another generation).

RESPONSE: Jesus used the correct meaning for those he was referring to, those standing with him.

Common sense dictates that some standing here are this or the present generation.

I understand what you are saying and why you are saying it.

If only it was that simple and straightforward!

If only we were dealing with something written and spoken in our language and in our day.

If only we were not dealing with something written over 2000 years ago, in two languages foreign to us.

If only we were not dealing with the Bible, a book on religion, and with a man who did not fit into anyone's box.

[polonius]

[Replying to post 108 by polonius.advice]

RESPONSE: Those standing there with Jesus were obviously This generation ( not another generation).

RESPONSE: Jesus used the correct meaning for those he was referring to, those standing with him.

Common sense dictates that some standing here are this or the present generation.

I understand what you are saying and why you are saying it.

If only it was that simple and straightforward!

RESPONSE: IT IS, IF ONE USES THE PLAIN MEANING OF THE WORDS (AND CONCEPT)JESUS USED

If only we were dealing with something written and spoken in our language and in our day.

If only we were not dealing with something written over 2000 years ago, in two languages foreign to us.

If only we were not dealing with the Bible, a book on religion, and with a man who did not fit into anyone's box.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 108 by polonius.advice]

RESPONSE: Those standing there with Jesus were obviously This generation ( not another generation).

RESPONSE: Jesus used the correct meaning for those he was referring to, those standing with him.

Common sense dictates that some standing here are this or the present generation.

I understand what you are saying and why you are saying it.

If only it was that simple and straightforward!

RESPONSE: IT IS, IF ONE USES THE PLAIN MEANING OF THE WORDS (AND CONCEPT)JESUS USED

If only we were dealing with something written and spoken in our language and in our day.

If only we were not dealing with something written over 2000 years ago, in two languages foreign to us.

If only we were not dealing with the Bible, a book on religion, and with a man who did not fit into anyone's box.

I have yet to see from skeptic posters the slightest interest in, let alone grasp of, THE PLAIN MEANING OF THE WORDS (AND CONCEPT)JESUS USED each time he uttered "generation".

[polonius]

[Replying to post 108 by polonius.advice]

RESPONSE: Those standing there with Jesus were obviously This generation ( not another generation).

RESPONSE: Jesus used the correct meaning for those he was referring to, those standing with him.

Common sense dictates that some standing here are this or the present generation.

I understand what you are saying and why you are saying it.

If only it was that simple and straightforward!

RESPONSE: IT IS, IF ONE USES THE PLAIN MEANING OF THE WORDS (AND CONCEPT)JESUS USED

If only we were dealing with something written and spoken in our language and in our day.

If only we were not dealing with something written over 2000 years ago, in two languages foreign to us.

If only we were not dealing with the Bible, a book on religion, and with a man who did not fit into anyone's box.

I have yet to see from skeptic posters the slightest interest in, let alone grasp of, THE PLAIN MEANING OF THE WORDS (AND CONCEPT)JESUS USED each time he uttered "generation".

RESPONSE: Then perhaps you should reread my responses and perhaps seek some assistance . Hint: Assertions without evidence are prudently disregarded.

Begin by analyzing the term "this generation" determining the time frame this would include.

The simplest answer is the one found by doing an online word search for "generation" in the New Testament..... It it most certainly first century. " Mike Bull Mar 11 '13

In Deuteronomy 1:35 and 2:14 a generation is a period of thirty-eight years.

Jesus made this even clearer by saying some standing here so there would be no question about what he was saying (English Standard Version Matt 16:28 )

But Jesus was in error. It just didn't happen. (Only God is completely without error).