Diversified Oneness

[101G]

[shnarkle]

[101G]

[shnarkle]

[Overcomer]

101G wrote:

the doctrine I support is this. there is only one person in the Godhead and that's the Holy Spirit. and this ONE Spirit "shared" or diversified himself in flesh, hence the G243 allos.

and as for the comforter, the Lord Jesus plainly said that he is the comforter to return, scripture,

John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you".

verse 18 here is crystal clear, "I will come to you". that's plain as day.

I'm sorry, but you're misinterpreting the verses. Jesus says he will send ANOTHER comforter. He doesn't say that he will be that comforter. He says it is someone other than himself who is JUST LIKE himself, that is, divine.

The thing is, you have to look at verses in context of the entire Bible. While Jesus and the Holy Spirit are identical in essence, it's obvious that the Holy Spirit has his own consciousness as do Jesus and God the Father. We see this at Christ's baptism when God the Father speaks and when the Holy Spirit appears (Matt. 3:13-17). We see all three persons of the Triune Godhead at the same time.

So what did Jesus mean in verse 18 when he said he would come to them? He was referring to the fact that, after his crucifixion, he would return to them so that they would know that he hadn't abandoned them. Their grief at his death would be short-lived and, thus, they would not remain comfortless in the face of it.

See here for a detailed explanation of the 14th chapter of John:

https://bible.org/article/theological-m ... hn-1415-31

You may call what you preach "diversified oneness", but it sounds like modalism or Sabellianism to me.

[FWI]

[Replying to post 14 by 101G]

I must disagree with your assessment about the OT and the NT concerning our Lord Jesus, they both clearly tell us who he is.

This is expected (disagreement), but neither the O.T nor the N.T claim that the begotten Son of God is actually the "Self-Existing One" or YHWH. Because, if they did, you would have listed the chapters and verses where this is claimed. We can theorize about our opinions and use backdoor logic for support, but trying to suggest that they are factual claims related to such an important topic, without verifiable evidence is likely to be scrutinized and rejected.

I asked who made everything, the OT and the NT states that it was JESUS.

The O.T implies that the Self-Existing One and angels were involved in the creation of our universe and the life that is on it. This can be extrapolated by reviewing the Hebrew word Elohim. So, unless you believe that the Son of God is a created angel, I must question your position. However, even if you did believe the Son of God is a created angel, I would need question that belief, as well.

In John 1:1-5, we have an entirely different situation. This is not referring to the creation of the universe or life, it is referring to the new creation and/or the new covenant. Here, the Son of God is sitting at the right hand of his Father's throne. He is in control of the events, which must take place (after his resurrection). These events include: the restoration of the Kingdom of God, the new heaven and new earth (Rev. 21), as well as, the resurrection of the dead (to an opportunity) for a new life or existence (John 1:4-5).

[101G]

[Replying to post 20 by shnarkle]

"I'd really like to see where it says "Jesus" created everything. Jesus was a human being who lived around 2000 years ago, and only for about 30 years, which doesn't really fit with any of the creation stories in the bible. An itinerant preacher named Jesus didn't create the world".


Here is your answer. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made".

You said Jesus was a Human being. the correct response is that he was in human flesh.

but to show you the truth of what and who the Lord Jesus was, before he took on flesh, he was Spirit . supportive Scripture. 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow".


see shnarkle, Christ is "Spirit" before he took on flesh and bone as a man. he Jesus, the Spirit, was in the prophets of the old testament testifying of the grace that should come. just go back to any of the OT prophets and you will see something like this in all the books of the prophets. "The word of the LORD came unto and the name of the prophet". example,

Genesis 15:1 "After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward". or,

1 Samuel 15:10 "Then came the word of the LORD unto Samuel, saying", or,

Jeremiah 1:11 "Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Jeremiah, what seest thou? And I said, I see a rod of an almond tree". one more,

Hosea 1:1 "The word of the LORD that came unto Hosea, the son of Beeri, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash, king of Israel".

understand the "word" of the LORD is JESUS himself.

now one more example, 1 Corinthians 10:1 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

1 Corinthians 10:2 "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

1 Corinthians 10:3 "And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

1 Corinthians 10:4 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ".


Christ is the Rock, who was with them, (ISRAEL in the Exodus). Christ JESUS is the ROCK according to the apostle Paul here in 1 Corinthians 10. let's see what the OT Prophet Moses say as to who the Rock is.

Deuteronomy 32:3 "Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

Deuteronomy 32:4 "He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he".

so the ROCK is the LORD, all cap, according to Moses. and Christ is the ROCK according to the apostle Paul. do they agree? yes, for the LORD is JESUS Christ.

and it was the Lord Jesus as Spirit that created all things, listen.

scripture, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself".

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


see, "ALL THINGS WAS MADE BY HIM, "THE WORD" THE "LORD" WHO IS JESUS".

conclusion: the word is the LORD who is the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, who is God. the ONLY PERSON in the Godhead.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters".

there is JESUS, right from the beginning, Spirit, the Holy Spirit.

[101G]

[Replying to post 14 by 101G]

I must disagree with your assessment about the OT and the NT concerning our Lord Jesus, they both clearly tell us who he is.

This is expected (disagreement), but neither the O.T nor the N.T claim that the begotten Son of God is actually the "Self-Existing One" or YHWH. Because, if they did, you would have listed the chapters and verses where this is claimed. We can theorize about our opinions and use backdoor logic for support, but trying to suggest that they are factual claims related to such an important topic, without verifiable evidence is likely to be scrutinized and rejected.


My respond, Read my last post, it gives OT and NT proof, but I'll give other scriptures,

Just read the 7 letter to the Churches in the book of Revelation. Notice, in every letter it is Jesus the Son of God who is addressing each church right, but notice how each letter ends, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches". yes, JESUS is the Spirit, the Holy Spirit.

I asked who made everything, the OT and the NT states that it was JESUS.

The O.T implies that the Self-Existing One and angels were involved in the creation of our universe and the life that is on it. This can be extrapolated by reviewing the Hebrew word Elohim. So, unless you believe that the Son of God is a created angel, I must question your position. However, even if you did believe the Son of God is a created angel, I would need question that belief, as well.

In John 1:1-5, we have an entirely different situation. This is not referring to the creation of the universe or life, it is referring to the new creation and/or the new covenant. Here, the Son of God is sitting at the right hand of his Father's throne. He is in control of the events, which must take place (after his resurrection). These events include: the restoration of the Kingdom of God, the new heaven and new earth (Rev. 21), as well as, the resurrection of the dead (to an opportunity) for a new life or existence (John 1:4-5).

.

(smile).... I suggest you read my response above in Bold letters..

[101G]

Now, with all said, do anyone still have any doubts concering, "the Lord Jesus making all things?".

if so please post your concerns with scriptures.

[shnarkle]

[Replying to post 26 by 101G]

understand the "word" of the LORD is JESUS himself.

Not even close. The texts are quite clear in pointing out that the word "became flesh". A zygote became a baby, which became a child, which became an adult. A zygote is not an adult. You are assuming that the word is equal to the person. The meaning of Christ cannot be exhausted in the person of Jesus. Jesus himself says "deny yourself". The person cannot exhaust who Christ is. Ultimately the person must be cast aside just as Christ cast aside his persona revealing the image of the invisible God. God is not a person. Christ is the persona of God, and yet Jesus the person never existed prior to the incarnation. Are you going to deny the incarnation?

Christ is the Rock, who was with them, (ISRAEL in the Exodus). Christ JESUS is the ROCK according to the apostle Paul here in 1 Corinthians 10.

Sure, but again Paul isn't saying that the rock in the dessert was Jesus. Jesus' incarnation didn't occur until later. You're conflating the two.

so the ROCK is the LORD, all cap, according to Moses. and Christ is the ROCK according to the apostle Paul. do they agree? yes, for the LORD is JESUS Christ.

Sorry, you aren't even able to match your doctrine with the proper verb. Christ says, "I and the Father ARE one" You are claiming that Jehovah IS Christ. Paul is careful to distinguish between the two in 1 Cor.8:6

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Please pay careful attention to the fact that Paul clearly distinguishes between the "one God, the Father" who is the origin of all things, and Christ who is the means by which everything is created. The Father is also the origin of Christ, and neither of these two are "things". They aren't even beings. Christ is existence while the father is the origin of existence. Jesus the person exists for the same reason we all exist, i.e. because "Apart from me (i.e. Christ) you can do nothing"

and it was the Lord Jesus as Spirit that created all things, listen.

You are begging the question. You are presenting what you intend to prove as a given, then just presenting one quote after another; none of which show "Jesus" doing anything. You're simply assuming that Jehovah is Jesus. On some level this is the case, but it certainly isn't with regards to the created person. God is not created. God dwells in the incarnation, as in "in him the fulness of the godhead dwells in bodily form"

there is JESUS, right from the beginning, Spirit, the Holy Spirit.

Except that nowhere do the texts make that claim. You've simply asserted this claim without showing anything to connect the dots. Again, the problem here is that you ignore the fact that the introduction to John's gospel clearly points out that "the word BECAME flesh". The word BECAME what was known as the man Jesus. The "Word" isn't a "what" or a thing, but Jesus was a man. The man Jesus didn't create the world. The man Jesus was part of the world. He came "in sinful flesh". Sinful flesh didn't create the world. You're conflating the two, and projecting Jesus back in time long before he ever existed.

The Logos isn't the pneuma. The word isn't the spirit anymore than the breath that vibrates your vocal chords is the word that is produced by that breath. The breath is the power that produces the word. The word which becomes flesh is "what" is produced. Jesus then shows us that he is the means or way back to the father. He was that pillar of fire by night and that pillar of smoke during the day, but he isn't saying that the pillars of smoke and fire was the person Jesus. A pillar of fire and smoke isn't a burning bush, nor are they a priest named Melchizedek. The spirit that was upon the face of the deep was not a person named Jesus. A person named Jesus could never "become" a person named Jesus if he was already a person named Jesus. You are contradicting the texts which clearly stated that "the word BECAME flesh"

[101G]

[Replying to post 29 by shnarkle]

that's your opinion, but the question still stands, "who made all things". so please address that question.