Is the Bible the inerrant Word of God?

[Elijah John]

For those who claim that the Bible is the "inerrant Word of God" why do you believe this?

Seems to me the arguments to support this belief are usually circular. As in "The Bible is inerrant because it is the Word of God". And evidence that the Bible is the Word of God?" Because the Bible is without error or contradiction", i.e. inerrant.

Consider this OP a challenge. Give the skeptic a better argument to convince them that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God than the usual circular argument.

Why do you believe and why should the skeptic believe that the Bible is the "inerrant Word of God"?

Break out of the circle.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 69 by PinSeeker]

Now, that's only part of the story... the other part, which is much larger, is sin directly against God Himself... but it is more than sufficient to expose your foolish denial.

Until the existence of God has been demonstrated, sin is just an invented religious concept. Thousands of gods have come and gone as human beings have invented them to suit their needs and expectations. They all had their specific likes and dislikes, attributes assigned to them by their human creators. The Christian God is just another one in the pantheon. It will eventually be discarded like so many others before it.

[Clownboat]

Consider this, you believe in a god that can create the universe with words, but when it comes to relaying a message of salvation, he gets overpowered due to humans. This does not ring true.

He's not "overpowered" in any way. The message is clear to all. Both in the Bible, and in all that has been made (creation itself).

You are wrong and the evidence for that is all the differing denomination. Your claim that the message is clear is therefore incorrect. Sorry.

People, in their own sin, sometimes get this or that wrong, or they deny it in part or altogether.

More victim blaming. How about you show that you speak the truth here?

That's not God's fault.

Yes it is. An all powerful god that can create universes with words is certainly to blame if it intended to get a message out to the world, but just couldn't because humans got in the way.

In Matthew 6, Clownboat, Jesus is "allegedly" talking to folks who already believe.

The words are still there. Forgive and you will be forgiven. Don't, and the said god will not forgive you either.
Tell me, in your denomination is forgiveness important in order to receive eternal life?Perhaps in your version you must have a human sacrificed to a god in order to receive forgiveness? Paul was huge on that take after all.
So many flavors of Christianity...

In this part of Matthew 12, Clownboat, Jesus is "allegedly" not talking about salvation, per se, but only making the point that words reveal character. In other words, if you have believed, then your words will reveal it, and by the same token, if you haven't really believed, your words will reveal that also.

Let's start one verse earlier shall we?
36 But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.

Matt 19:29 Jesus is claimed to have said: And every one who has left houses or brothers or sisters for father or mother or children or lands, for my name's sake, will receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.

Yes, again, He's "allegedly" drawing a distinction between those who have believed and thus received salvation and those who haven't.

Just a few verses prior...
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?

Jesus's answer: "...for my name's sake, will receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.

So all these things are secondary, Clownboat. Not secondary in the sense that it's less important, but secondary in the sense that all this naturally follows after (and possibly not immediately after) one believes in Christ and rests on Him alone for his/her salvation.

So you say, but like I have shown, the message is not clear like you would like to believe.
It's things like this that allow for the differing beliefs we now have. If this message was even from a god, how are we to know what was originally said?

The pope may be a good guy, but he's not God. He's a man, and he says some stupid, non-Biblical stuff. This is most assuredly one of them. It directly contradicts Jesus's own "alleged" statement, I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." (John 14:6)

And all the Pope would need to do is what you have done above. Make some claims about what allegedly you believe was going on.
The pope is the successor to St. Peter, no? Perhaps your version does not agree? To bad the message isn't more clear.

Total avoidance of the question (which I sort of expected). Yes, there is a survival instinct, but one the trouble is past, you get angry, at least a little bit. This is your sinful nature rearing its ugly head. Like I said, it's a very small example; I'm sure if you think about it, you will see that your initial reaction to, um, unpleasant things, is to get really mad about it, or react in some very negative way. That's because of the sin in you. There's other things, like being tempted to do something you know you shouldn't. You may abstain, but you REEEEEEEEEEEEEEALLY want to do it. You may actually do it. Either way, that's because of the sin in you.

Sorry guy, but you have not shown that I have sin in me. You have pointed to emotions all in an attempt to justify this sin sickness you are convinced you have. You are doing nothing more than projecting your sickness on to others. What I find sad is that you are probably proud of this behavior. Ironically, that is kind of sickening.

The measurement of a cubit is not precise, since a cubit was based on the distance from a persons elbow to the tip of a finger. Thus, the length of a cubit would vary somewhat, according to the one doing the measuring and the length of his arm. Scholars generally agree that the height found in the Greek text is older and more original. At any rate, this is really beside the point. We don't know exactly how tall Goliath was,

More falsehoods.
A cubit is about 18 inches.
Goliath started out at 4 cubits and a span. As the myth went on, he grew to 6 cubits and a span. The important question is how much of this took place in the Old Testament when oral tradition ruled the day.

<snipped some preaching>

The Bible contains myths that did not happen.

This is an opinion, not a fact.

Creation
Global Flood
Talking animals
A man living in a fish for days
Dead and decomposing bodies coming back to life.
People flying off in the sky to heaven.
Let's let the readers decide for themselves shall we. Again, your faith is not in question.

There is no information about Christ outside of the Bible.

There doesn't need to be. God has said all that needs to be said.

Yes there does. I pointed out that your faith is in a book. You said: "no, my faith is in Christ".
Since there is not information about Christ outside of religious promotional material, you do in fact have faith in a book as that is the only source about your Christ.

Then there is still the fact that the message has changed over the years.

Quite false.

Sorry, but Goliath has been evidenced.
Not to mention languages have gone extinct and changed over the years as well.

<snipped preaching about faith>

Note, I'm not comparing how they both wrote things (because they didn't). I'm comparing how they took existing god concepts and created a new religion.

But it's an apples to oranges comparison, Clownboat. Mohammed said he received a revelation from Allah, and he was the author of the Qu'ran. Abraham was merely a small part of a much, much, much larger story, the first in a long line of Biblical "heroes." I agree with you that Mohammed took existing god concepts (the Christian God as revealed in the Bible) and created a new religion. That's exactly what I was saying before. He "remade" God into what he wanted Him to be. And then, starting with Abraham, he reversed things already in the Bible for centuries to suit himself, thereby creating a new religion. Thus, Islam. Thank you for echoing that. Abraham was merely a character who only appeared in the latter half of the first book of the Bible, Genesis.

Abraham came from Ur. Ur had its own gods already, namely El, a name that is in the Bible as if Abraham took the god concept of his homeland and changed it to fit his narrative. Like you claim Mohammad did.

I don't recognize this sin concept.

Yeah, I get that. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

And yet you have nothing to show that you speak the truth and resort to jokes. Telling.

I reject your concept that I am sick until you can show that I'm sick.

I did. Both in the last post and this one. More on this in a moment.

You have faith that I'm sick. That is not the same as showing that I am actually sick.

- Yes, I wish you were not sick (sinful) like I am, but alas, you are not. I believe we are all sinners, because God has told us that we are, and that we are in need of His salvation, that we need Jesus. And I believe Him.

Readers, here it is on display about how once a person believes they are sick, they will then buy the medicine. Notice how hard he wants me to be sick (sinful) like him.
All this projecting stems from something he just happens to believe. He can't show that we are sick, and that is kinda sickening.

I do know certain things, because God has said them. They are in the Bible for all to see.

The Bible was written by men. Much of it was oral tradition for hundreds of years. Your claim that a god said anything is just a statement of your faith. What we really have is a book written for the most part by unknown people.

I/we only know the mind of God as far as He has revealed it in His Word. This is all I have said. But yet you say, I am "pretending to know the mind of a god here and now." No, not by any stretch of the imagination. Good grief.

You go to a church that reads the Bible and then teaches you lessons from it. That is not knowing the mind of a god. That is nothing more then men preaching about what they think a book means. Therefore, you can't know the mind of a god using this mechanism.

Sin is not a "disease." It's just the human condition.

Sure, like a disease is.

We are all sinful, and by our own choice.

I'm not sinful. I'm still a 'good Christian man' after all, I just don't hold the beliefs that I once did any longer.

And we are all in need of redemption, and thus salvation.

Do you see it happening readers?

It's not a "sickness," it's a need to be rescued... from ourselves.

Nice twist!
Now we need to be rescued. Let me guess, you have the rope!

<snipped preaching>

Grace and peace to you, Clownboat.

Be well...

[PinSeeker]

The Christian God is just another one in the pantheon. It will eventually be discarded like so many others before it.

Is that your "faith" talking?

[PinSeeker]

SIGH. This is a little bit exhausting. Oh well...

You are wrong and the evidence for that is all the differing denomination.

The message itself is clear. Human understanding, however, is clouded. Because of sin.

The words are still there. Forgive and you will be forgiven.

Yes, but if you disregard context -- which is what you're doing -- you can make anything "say" anything.

Tell me, in your denomination is forgiveness important in order to receive eternal life?

Yeah, I'm not discounting the importance of human-to-human forgiveness. Sure, that's very important. But that's a product of the mercy and forgiveness that we've been given by God. Jesus said, "For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little. No, don't misread that (which is not hard to do) and think we are forgiven by God because we have forgiven other people. No, read it correctly and understand that we forgive other people because we have been forgiven by God. And if we forgive others little -- or not at all -- then it is because we have not been forgiven by God.

Perhaps in your version you must have a human sacrificed to a god in order to receive forgiveness? Paul was huge on that take after all. So many flavors of Christianity...

What, that Jesus was sacrificed on our behalf? Sure, but that's the only "flavor" of Christianity there is. All Christians, regardless of denomination, believe Jesus was the propitiation for our sin(s), and is therefore the Lamb of God. Do you not?

In this part of Matthew 12, Clownboat, Jesus is "allegedly" not talking about salvation, per se, but only making the point that words reveal character. In other words, if you have believed, then your words will reveal it, and by the same token, if you haven't really believed, your words will reveal that also.

Let's start one verse earlier shall we? "But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."

We shall. And how does this refute what I say here? It doesn't.

So you say, but like I have shown, the message is not clear like you would like to believe.

Well, not clear to you. I understand. Now, that doesn't mean I think you are "not as smart" as me or any other person. I don't. But I understand.

The pope is the successor to St. Peter, no?

Absolutely not. Are you Catholic? No matter. We are all successors of St. Peter, really. All Christians, anyway. That's what a Christian is, a follower -- a disciple -- of Jesus.

Too bad the message isn't more clear.

Oh, but it is. Again, human understanding is the problem. And/or obstinance.

Sorry guy, but you have not shown that I have sin in me.

By showing you that you sin? I have not shown you that there is sin in you? LOL!

You are doing nothing more than projecting your sickness on to others.

Well no, I'm just acknowledging that I have this "sickness," as you put it, too.

What I find sad is that you are probably proud of this behavior.

Absolutely not.

Ironically, that is kind of sickening.

Well, it is a sickening thing to realize just how sinful we are. Fortunately -- thanks be to God -- there is a remedy. It won't "cure" us of sin in this life, but we can be redeemed. There is a Redeemer... Christ Jesus.

A cubit is about 18 inches.

The cubit is an ancient unit of length that had several definitions according to each of the various different cultures that used the unit. These definitions ranged between 444 mm and 529.2 mm. The unit was based on the forearm length from the tip of the middle finger to the bottom of the elbow. Cubits of various lengths were employed in many parts of the world in antiquity, during the Middle Ages and as recently as Early Modern Times.

The Bible contains myths that did not happen.

Creation, Global Flood, Talking animals, A man living in a fish for days, Dead and decomposing bodies coming back to life, People flying off in the sky to heaven.

Right; but again, that's just your opinion.

Let's let the readers decide for themselves shall we.

We shall. Yes, we shall.

Again, your faith is not in question.

And again, Clownboat, what is "faith?" What is Biblical faith, and Who is it's giver (author and protector)?

Since there is not information about Christ outside of religious promotional material, you do in fact have faith in a book as that is the only source about your Christ.

No, I have faith from God and in God that the book is about Christ (as He Himself said) from beginning to end. And as such, it helps me to see and to know Christ, Who, still, is the object of my faith, and therefore Whom I worship.

<snipped preaching about faith>

Ah, yes, cut out what you don't want to hear. Gotcha. Was it you that I quoted Simon and Garfunkel to? If not: "Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest..." (The Boxer, 1968)

Abraham came from Ur. Ur had its own gods already, namely El, a name that is in the Bible as if Abraham took the god concept of his homeland and changed it to fit his narrative.

LOL! No, God changed the "narrative" that Abraham had been fed. He was probably a moon worshiper, as was the Chaldean way that he came from.

Like you claim Mohammad did.

Then Mohommed changed God's "narrative" and made Abraham out to be basically the opposite of what he was. Which was my point.

And yet you have nothing to show that you speak the truth and resort to jokes. Telling.

Showing that you sin is no joke.

You have faith that I'm sick. That is not the same as showing that I am actually sick.

I showed, Clownboat, your sinful reaction to even ordinary, trivial situations like being cut off in traffic. You don't agree that your actions speak louder than mere words?

Sin is not a "disease." It's just the human condition.

Sure, like a disease is.

Um, Clownboat, I'm pretty healthy (knock on wood) by human standards. I assume you are, too.

Now we need to be rescued. Let me guess, you have the rope!

Well, I do, actually. The Rope. You can, too, Clownboat. We all can.

Again, grace and peace to you, Clownboat.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 73 by PinSeeker]

No, I have faith from God and in God that the book is about Christ (as He Himself said) from beginning to end. And as such, it helps me to see and to know Christ, Who, still, is the object of my faith, and therefore Whom I worship.

So what happens if we take the Bible off the table? What can you tell me about Christ, about God? Please explain how what you said there isn't an application of the following circular logic

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 69 by PinSeeker]

Do people not do wrong and/or unjust things to each other, brunumb? Either or both inwardly and outwardly? At least from time to time? Yes, they do. Of course they do. To not think so, I'm sure you would agree, is absurd.

What makes any of this "sin"? You're question begging there. I can agree that the example you gave (being cut off in traffic and then screaming a litany of foul language) is an expression of anger...but I do not agree that this means "sin". You're essentially saying that X is Y, and so far, at best, all we can agree on is that there is indeed an X. Now show us that it is indeed a Y.
We can agree that humans can get angry, we can agree that humans can hurt one another, can do unjust things to one another, because there is plenty of evidence for that. So much evidence that there's no point in even listing it, especially since both of us agree...but what you do NOT do is show us evidence that this is "sin". You just make the jump to that conclusion.

[PinSeeker]

What do you think "sin" is, Rik. Never mind whether you believe sin is real or not; that's irrelevant to the question. I'd like to hear your definition of sin. Lay it on me.

[rikuoamero]

What do you think "sin" is, Rik. Never mind whether you believe sin is real or not; that's irrelevant to the question. I'd like to hear your definition of sin. Lay it on me.

I honestly don't know, and no, I'm not joking. I've been asking the question for years, and can never get a precise definition. I've been told all sorts of things - like God can't be around sin...except for when he was around Adam and Eve before they covered themselves, or when Jesus had meals with sinners.

[PinSeeker]

You didn't answer the question, Rik. I didn't ask whether you know what sin is or not. I asked what you think sin is. Surely you're not saying you don't know what you think. What do you think sin is?

[brunumb]

The Christian God is just another one in the pantheon. It will eventually be discarded like so many others before it.

Is that your "faith" talking?

No. It is based on observed trends in religious belief.