Jehovah's Witnesses: Jesus is the Creator

[Faber]

Job 9:8
Who alone stretches out the heavens
And tramples down the waves of the sea. (NASB)

Isaiah 44:24
Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb,
I, the LORD, am the maker of all things,
Stretching out the heavens by Myself
And spreading out the earth all alone (NASB)

God "alone" is the Creator and yet the Jehovah's Witnesses affirm that the Lord Jesus shared in the creation.
Insight on the Scriptures: Not a co-Creator. The Sons share in the creative works, however, did not make him a co-Creator with his Father. The power for creation came from God through his holy spirit, or active force. (Ge 1:2; Ps 33:6) And since Jehovah is the Source of all life, all animate creation, visible and invisible, owes its life to him. (Ps 36:9) Rather than a co-Creator, then, the Son was the agent or instrumentality through whom Jehovah, the Creator, worked. Jesus himself credited God with the creation, as do all the Scriptures."Mt 19:4-6; see CREATION. (Volume 2, Jesus Christ)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002451

Why do the Jehovah's Witnesses deny the Lord Jesus is God despite the fact that He shared in the creation when the Bible teaches that God "alone" did it?

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all. posted:

Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost".

so please tell us who is the Father according to verse 20 here in Matthews?

RESPONSE:
Do you consider dreams to be reliable sources of facts especially when related by a non-witness 80 years after the fact writing to make converts to a new religion?

The father was Joseph himself or some other male.

As Good Apostle Paul advised: Test everything. Hold fast to that which is true. But put away childish things.

GINOLJC, to all.

Thats one of the weakest answers I ever heard, and I have heard many.

Mary Knew, and you to, Matthew 1:22 "Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

a virgin, meaning no man was involved.

Luke 1:34 "Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?. the term "know" here means sexual active with a man as Mary says she was "NOT" .

Dont you think God knew she was a virgin.

Oh well this shows me you are stuck in the truth and cant see your way out or around the truth.

the one whom you been calling the Father is really the Holy Ghost all the time, whom many calls the third, or last person in the Godhead. How foolish.

But at lest you tried.

Peace in Christ Jesus, Yeshua.

[101G]

Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John"

the "OF" in the above verse tells it all. "of" is a preposition that shows ownership. example,

Proverbs 8:22 "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old".

what did the LORD possessed or own? "WISDOM". and God's WISDOM, (God himself) Created everything. Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself".

this same Wisdom, (God himself, his mind), is made manifested in flesh, John 1:2 & 3 "The same was in the beginning with God". the preposition with shows ownership, that which God possessed in the beginning (Wisdom, his thoughts) is now manifested in flesh.

John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made". (see Isaiah 44:24)

the MIND of God was being expressed in creation at the beginning, and now in the eyes of men at the beginning his incarnation in flesh. John 1:10-13 "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

John 1:11 "He came unto his own, and his own received him not". his own? yes, he made man, (see Genesis 1:26)

John 1:12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 1:13 "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God".

the creator, JESUS, came to his creatures in flesh., and dwelt among us.

this is the CREATOR & MAKER, (Genesis 1:1) and our REDEEMER & SAVIOR, (John 1:1), and COMFORTER, and MEDIATOR (Revelation 1:1)

there he is (GOD, the Lord JESUS) in all three dispensation.

Peace in Christ Yeshua, the Lord Jesus.

[polonius]

GINOLJC, to all. posted:

Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost".

so please tell us who is the Father according to verse 20 here in Matthews?

RESPONSE:
Do you consider dreams to be reliable sources of facts especially when related by a non-witness 80 years after the fact writing to make converts to a new religion?

The father was Joseph himself or some other male.

As Good Apostle Paul advised: Test everything. Hold fast to that which is true. But put away childish things.

GINOLJC, to all.

Thats one of the weakest answers I ever heard, and I have heard many.

Mary Knew, and you to, Matthew 1:22 "Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

a virgin, meaning no man was involved.

Luke 1:34 "Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?. the term "know" here means sexual active with a man as Mary says she was "NOT" .

Dont you think God knew she was a virgin.

Oh well this shows me you are stuck in the truth and cant see your way out or around the truth.

the one whom you been calling the Father is really the Holy Ghost all the time, whom many calls the third, or last person in the Godhead. How foolish.

But at lest you tried.

Peace in Christ Jesus, Yeshua.

RESPONSE:

No. The correct translation is young woman ("almah") Matthew was working from a Jewish mistranslation. "Betulah" is the Hebrew term for a physically intact virgin' But of course, his mistranslation became popular with the church even if incorrect.

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all. posted:

Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost".

so please tell us who is the Father according to verse 20 here in Matthews?

RESPONSE:
Do you consider dreams to be reliable sources of facts especially when related by a non-witness 80 years after the fact writing to make converts to a new religion?

The father was Joseph himself or some other male.

As Good Apostle Paul advised: Test everything. Hold fast to that which is true. But put away childish things.

GINOLJC, to all.

Thats one of the weakest answers I ever heard, and I have heard many.

Mary Knew, and you to, Matthew 1:22 "Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

a virgin, meaning no man was involved.

Luke 1:34 "Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?. the term "know" here means sexual active with a man as Mary says she was "NOT" .

Dont you think God knew she was a virgin.

Oh well this shows me you are stuck in the truth and cant see your way out or around the truth.

the one whom you been calling the Father is really the Holy Ghost all the time, whom many calls the third, or last person in the Godhead. How foolish.

But at lest you tried.

Peace in Christ Jesus, Yeshua.

RESPONSE:

No. The correct translation is young Woman ("almah") Matthew was working from a Jewish mistranslation. But of course, his mistranslation became popular even if incorrect.

first thanks for the response. but I must disagree with you here to a point. almah is correctly used here. for a Bethulah, the near consistent usage of bethulah testifies to its representation of a woman who is not married, and therefore is in the house of her father (or other protector). It is applied to those young women who are specifically shown as still residing in the houses of their fathers. understand, bethulah is not a technical term for biological virginity, but rather a social term describing a woman who is separated apart from society", by being under her father's roof or that of another protector. see, Mary was under Joseph's roof, married, but not yet consummated the marriage by having sex. so yes, the correct term almah is used, but not in the General sense of a young woman ONLY.

Peace in Christ Yeshua, the Lord Jesus the almighty one.

[polonius]

Perhaps the most reliable translation of 7:14 Isaiah is found in the World Council of Church's New Revised Standard Version of the Bible.

Isaiah 7:14 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel.

Is there any claim that Immanuel was divine like Jesus?

[JehovahsWitness]

Perhaps the most reliable translation of 7:14 Isaiah is found in the World Council of Church's New Revised Standard Version of the Bible.

Isaiah 7:14 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel.

Is there any claim that Immanuel was divine like Jesus?

Yes your comment that "The young woman" is erhaps the most reliable translation of 7:14 Isaiah applies to the NET of Jehovah's Witnesses who also render the verse " ..Look! The young woman will become pregnant "

Is there any claim that Immanuel was divine like Jesus?

No but Jesus mother was a virgin.

[polonius]

Perhaps the most reliable translation of 7:14 Isaiah is found in the World Council of Church's New Revised Standard Version of the Bible.

Isaiah 7:14 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel.

Is there any claim that Immanuel was divine like Jesus?

Yes your comment that "The young woman" is erhaps the most reliable translation of 7:14 Isaiah applies to the NET of Jehovah's Witnesses who also render the verse " ..Look! The young woman will become pregnant "

Is there any claim that Immanuel was divine like Jesus?

No but Jesus mother was a virgin.

RESPONSE: No. The "Virgin births " in Matthew resulted from a mistranslation of Isaiah 7:14 which has been corrected in modern Bibles.

Isaiah 7:14 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel
.

Isaiah 7:14 New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign; the young woman, pregnant and about to bear a son, shall name him Emmanuel.

What is the difference between the Hebrew terms almah and betulah?

There is no scholastic debate on this. These words are quite different. the reason that Christians debate them is the fact that both words were translated into Greek as "parthenos." Then when the Greek Bible was translated into Latin, the word "parthenos" was translated as "virginem," Because the translators translated a translation (like the game "telephone").

Had the translators of the first Latin Bible used the original Hebrew to make their translation, this error would never have happened.

alma (") = young woman, married or single.
betulah (") = a woman of any age who has not had sex

[JehovahsWitness]

RESPONSE: No. The "Virgin births " in Matthew resulted from a mistranslation of Isaiah 7:14 which has been corrected in modern Bibles.

No the idea of the virgin birth comes from Mary telling the angel Gabriel that she'd never had SEX.

[polonius]

RESPONSE: No. The "Virgin births " in Matthew resulted from a mistranslation of Isaiah 7:14 which has been corrected in modern Bibles.

No the idea of the virgin birth comes from Mary telling the angel Gabriel that she'd never had SEX.

RESPONSE: That's just a story written 80 years after the fact. Mark and John's gospel say no such thing nor is it ever mentioned in Matthew and Luke beyond the "nativity narratives" which seem to have been a later edition.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05242c.htm
Ebionites, the early Christians

The doctrines of this sect are said by Irenaeus to be like those of Cerinthus and Carpocrates. They denied the Divinity and the virginal birth of Christ; they clung to the observance of the Jewish Law; they regarded St. Paul as an apostate, and used only a Gospel according to St. Matthew (Adv. Haer., I, xxvi, 2; III, xxi, 2; IV, xxxiii, 4; V, i, 3). Their doctrines are similarly described by Hippolytus (Philos., VIII, xxii, X, xviii) and Tertullian (De carne Chr., xiv, 18),

Evidently, the early strata of the Gospel of Matthew did not have a virgin birth legend.

[JehovahsWitness]

RESPONSE: No. The "Virgin births " in Matthew resulted from a mistranslation of Isaiah 7:14 which has been corrected in modern Bibles.

No the idea of the virgin birth comes from Mary telling the angel Gabriel that she'd never had SEX.

RESPONSE: That's just a story written 80 years after the fact.

Well it's in the bible canon and the bible canon is authorative in this forum. Do you have a more substantial to offer or are you simply asking "How do we know the bible (canon) is true?"
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