Could I ask a favor?

[onewithhim]

Hi. I want to ask that only people who truly want to learn more about what the Bible says about living forever in Paradise on Earth to post on this thread. Please. I don't want to argue. I would very much appreciate it if people who think everybody is either going to heaven or to Hell would not start a battle of words here. I hope to hear from people who think that PSALM 37:9-11, and also verse 29, sounds pretty good. Thank you. OWH

[onewithhim]

Paradise on earth is not an appealing notion to me.

As far as I can tell from what others who believe in this idea and want to experience it, the idea is that one gets resurrected but the body is significantly different from the one previously experienced. It will be eternal.

I would consider it more a curse than a blessing to be incarcerated into a container that is non-perishable within a universe which will one day end.

I don't believe that the body we would be resurrected in would be "significantly different" from the one we have now. I believe, and JWs teach, that the resurrected body would be EXACTLY LIKE the body previously experienced, except with no malformations or diseases or problems......bodies whole and healthy. God remembers everyone who has died, and He will bring them back just exactly like the people they were, only without sickness.

We don't believe that the universe will end, either. It is written:

"...The earth abideth forever." (Ecclesiastes 1:4, KJV)

"Evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth...and dwell therein forever." (Psalm 37:9,29, KJV)

[William]

[Replying to post 11 by onewithhim]

I don't believe that the body we would be resurrected in would be "significantly different" from the one we have now. ... the resurrected body would be EXACTLY LIKE the body previously experienced, except with no malformations or diseases or problems......bodies whole and healthy. God remembers everyone who has died, and He will bring them back just exactly like the people they were, only without sickness.

Pretty much what I said. One gets resurrected but the body is significantly different from the one previously experienced. It will be eternal.
No need to pro create, eat, be afraid of falling from a great height, burning oneself, getting crushed by a tree falling, etc et al.

It is written:

"...The earth abideth forever." (Ecclesiastes 1:4, KJV)

So you believe something which goes against what is known already. Suns don't last forever and the sun is going to expand eventually and consume the earth.

There is plenty of evidence to support this, and it is happening all the time throughout the universe.

Even if one were to say "The universe will be changed just like our bodies" all one would be saying is that one will be placed into another universe which is not this one, which is a whole other story...

But even so, like I said:

"I would consider it more a curse than a blessing to be incarcerated into a container that is non-perishable."

It wouldn't matter if the container containing the container (The Earth/Universe) was also imperishable. The point is that it inhibits.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to post 6 by onewithhim]

Peace to you OWH,

Could you also explain to me where you get the term Paradise earth?

I am not disagreeing; just trying to understand what you mean specifically.


Thank you!

The Bible says that Adam and Eve were in charge of the Garden of Eden, and they were to fill the earth with their progeny as well as cultivating it and taking care of it. (Genesis 1:28) That was God's original purpose for the earth. I believe that there is no indication in the Bible that He changed His mind about that. It has always been His idea and His desire to have the earth become a paradise with people on it that love Him and will obey His instructions.




God never said to Adam or any other man that He had changed His mind and all people would now go to heaven. No, instead we see hundreds if not thousands of verses that speak of a physical world where things will be set right again, as it was in the beginning, and as God intended it to be. What else would we call this but "Paradise"? Jesus spoke to the thief beside him before he died and told him that he would be in Paradise with Jesus. I believe that he was speaking about this earth, onto which the man would be resurrected, under Jesus' reign over the earth from heaven.

Paradise conditions:

Isaiah 11:6-9
Isaiah 33:24
Isaiah 35:1,6
Isaiah 65:21-25
Job 33:25
Micah 4:4

I would agree that things will be as they were at the start with Adam and Eve (before they ate the tree of knowing good/life and bad/death). I was just wondering where the term came from.


Would you agree that Christ is referring to this Paradise at Revelation 2:7?

"Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God."



Peace again to you!

[William]

[Replying to post 10 by onewithhim]

So are you saying that these new bodies will procreate?

[JehovahsWitness]

Suns don't last forever ....

They do if God wants them to.

... the sun is going to expand eventually and consume the earth.

It won't if God doesn't want it to.

MATTHEW 19:26

With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 14 by William]

QUESTION Will there be procreation (sex and bablies) in paradise?

The bible doesn't specifically confirm that this will be the case but there is ample reason to believe humans will continue to procreate in paradise.

While procreation is not a feature of heavenly life as all those in heaven will have spirit bodies (like the angels) and spirits are not gender bound creatures, all those living in the future paradise earth will be human and sexuality, sex and the resulting choice to procreation should they wish, is a part of being a normal functioning human being.

Further we know that when Jesus resurrected a 12 year old girl during his ministry he instructed her parents to give her something to eat, so we know a resurrected body (person) can eat, which is a bodily function we are familiar with. If these resurrected ones eat it seems reasonable their bodies are indeed human and function as such. We also know Jesus (as a human on earth) felt hungry, thirsty and tired even being in a perfect body, so again a perfect body continues to have the same physical capacities and limitations we (imperfect) humans have.

Finally Adam and Eve, in paradise (with perfect bodies) were instructed to "be fruitful and multiply" so they were effectively instructed by God to have sex and procreate. Thus we can conclude that marriage is an arrangement originated by God and having sex and babies was part of God's purpose for humans in paradise. There is no reason that once restored to perfect human life on this same planet earth that Adam and Eve walked on, humans will not go on to fulfil that original commission through procreation.


JEHOVAHS WITNESS







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[polonius]

Onewithhim posted

The Bible says that Adam and Eve were in charge of the Garden of Eden, and they were to fill the earth with their progeny as well as cultivating it and taking care of it. (Genesis 1:28) That was God's original purpose for the earth. I believe that there is no indication in the Bible that He changed His mind about that. It has always been His idea and His desire to have the earth become a paradise with people on it that love Him and will obey His instructions.

RESPONSE: Then the Bible evidences that God evidently didnt know the future, and did desire nor have the power or desire to correct man, doesnt it?

[William]

[Replying to post 15 by JehovahsWitness]

The problem with this is that even if GOD wanted to, eventually all that would be left is the sun and the earth. Not an appealing thing which I find attractive.

[Replying to post 16 by JehovahsWitness]

While procreation is not a feature of heavenly life as all those in heaven will have spirit bodies (like the angels) and spirits are not gender bound creatures, all those living in the future paradise earth will be human and sexuality, sex and the resulting choice to procreation should they wish, is a part of being a normal functioning human being.

There are of course problems with that. Are the children also going to have non-perishable forms? Will they have knowledge of anything or will they have to be taught?
Are the going to be sinless, and if so why would that be the case?

Are individuals free to have sex with one another, or would they have to form couples, be heterosexual and create family units?

Will there be ownership of land, and other possessions?

What if they don't 'wish to have children' how will they prevent this from happening?

Also, given forever is forever, with all the procreating, there will come a time when the earth will be full of these humans living forever. Standing room only. Not much of a paradise.

Further we [strike]know[/strike]are told and believe that when Jesus resurrected a 12 year old girl during his ministry he instructed her parents to give her something to eat, so we know a resurrected body (person) can eat, which is a bodily function we are familiar with.

[ftfy]

Well, to be fair the story doesn't say the girl was resurrected into a body that would never die. Are you saying the girl is still alive to this day?

If these resurrected ones eat it seems reasonable their bodies are indeed human and function as such.

So eating (what goes in) also means poohing (what comes out).

We also [strike]know[/strike]are told and believe Jesus (as a human on earth) felt hungry, thirsty and tired even being in a perfect body, so again a perfect body continues to have the same physical capacities and limitations we (imperfect) humans have.

[ftfy]

So a perfect body has the same physical limitations as an imperfect body, except that it doesn't die. Once again I marvel. Who would want to be incarcerated in such a thing, and do so forever!

One could fall from a great height, break ever bone in ones body, rupture every organ, and feel the pain...and (supposedly) heal over whatever amount of time it naturally takes to do so.

Hopefully GOD hasn't removed all those plants which can help people by dulling their pain.

Seriously I have to say, those who believe in this stuff, don't seem to have thought it through a great deal, because a great deal it is not.


eta
[Replying to post 5 by JehovahsWitness]

QUESTION: Won't the earth eventually become over populated if nobody dies?

There is the potential for this problem but looking back to the bible we can learn a lot from God's original command to Adam and Eve. So the original command was for humans to "fill the earth" not over populate it.

Oh yes! Plenty of space under the sea and actually under the ground too! Eventually though, people will have to stop breeding. No more sex! Ever! No more children! Ever!

Then of course one also has to remember there were other animals in Adam and Eves garden. presumably all having sex too - do those animals die? Do the humans in their new bodies also eat animals? Will man-eaters still exist?

[William]

[Replying to post 15 by JehovahsWitness]

The problem with this is that even if GOD wanted to, eventually all that would be left is the sun and the earth. Not an appealing thing which I find attractive.

[Replying to post 16 by JehovahsWitness]

While procreation is not a feature of heavenly life as all those in heaven will have spirit bodies (like the angels) and spirits are not gender bound creatures, all those living in the future paradise earth will be human and sexuality, sex and the resulting choice to procreation should they wish, is a part of being a normal functioning human being.

There are of course problems with that. Are the children also going to have non-perishable forms? Will they have knowledge of anything or will they have to be taught?
Are the going to be sinless, and if so why would that be the case?

Are individuals free to have sex with one another, or would they have to form couples, be heterosexual and create family units?

Will there be ownership of land, and other possessions?

What if they don't 'wish to have children' how will they prevent this from happening?

Also, given forever is forever, with all the procreating, there will come a time when the earth will be full of these humans living forever. Standing room only. Not much of a paradise.

Further we [strike]know[/strike]are told and believe that when Jesus resurrected a 12 year old girl during his ministry he instructed her parents to give her something to eat, so we know a resurrected body (person) can eat, which is a bodily function we are familiar with.

[ftfy]

Well, to be fair the story doesn't say the girl was resurrected into a body that would never die. Are you saying the girl is still alive to this day?

If these resurrected ones eat it seems reasonable their bodies are indeed human and function as such.

So eating (what goes in) also means poohing (what comes out).

We also [strike]know[/strike]are told and believe Jesus (as a human on earth) felt hungry, thirsty and tired even being in a perfect body, so again a perfect body continues to have the same physical capacities and limitations we (imperfect) humans have.

[ftfy]

So a perfect body has the same physical limitations as an imperfect body, except that it doesn't die. Once again I marvel. Who would want to be incarcerated in such a thing, and do so forever!

One could fall from a great height, break ever bone in ones body, rupture every organ, and feel the pain...and (supposedly) heal over whatever amount of time it naturally takes to do so.

Hopefully GOD hasn't removed all those plants which can help people by dulling their pain.

Seriously I have to say, those who believe in this stuff, don't seem to have thought it through a great deal, because a great deal it is not.

[JehovahsWitness]

One could fall from a great height, break ever bone in ones body, rupture every organ, and feel the pain...and (supposedly) heal over whatever amount of time it naturally takes to do so.

• Interestingly one of the 9 resurrections in the bible was indeed a boy that fell from a window. Luke reports him dead and so presumably he either broke his neck or suffered some other body or head trauma severe enough to cause a fatality.

So we can reasonably conclude that should someone in paradise fall in a way that would normally be fatal a resurrection is an option.

JW



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