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Replying to Divine Insight]
Well, you are already jumping to totally incorrect assumptions.
The reason the Biblical fables are problematic is not because they defy nature. They are problematic because they make self-contradictory claims about the nature and character of their God.
Well, your original comment:
I honestly can't understand how any modern person can continue to believe in these ancient stories.
There are just too many obvious problems with them.
Made no mention of your problem with them being you think they consist of “self-contradictory claims about the nature and character of their God�
But sure let’s go with that . . .
I would then say that is your erroneous interpretation. You think God can’t be loving and tough? You think an all knowing God can’t allow things to play out? You think there is no place for punishment for an all just God? Obviously, all those things are possible and hardly something I would call contradictory. It reminds me of an immature teen accusing his parent as being cruel and overly strict because he just got caught doing something wrong and punished for it. Yeah, I’m sure it isn’t about his parents wanting what is best for him and others. I’m sure they are just monsters.
All non-believers in Christianity are not necessarily "Materialists".
Again, more incorrect jumping to conclusions on your part.
The quote could apply to many materialists, skeptics, non believers, agnostics, atheists, etc. It was simply making the point that often believers are more open to new ideas and recognizing there may be more than we can see right now. Whereas, those who profess to be non believers, atheists, agnostic, materialists, etc. have already made a veto of sorts, which can preventing them from
seeing. It’s really a much more narrow world view.
That's fine. But you just said that it requires an act of faith.
So them my question to you would be to ask, "Why in the world would I want to place my faith in the idea that humans are to blame for the ills of the world?"
Because it has been revealed to us and I see it as true. There are lots of things that I might not want to believe, but end up being true. There are also things I think appear one way and then I realize I didn’t have all the information.
I mean, of all the things I could place my faith in, that would surely be the last on the list. I can't imagine why anyone would want to believe such a derogatory things about humans as a matter of faith.
We don’t put our faith in things because it is easy or is always accompanied by warm fuzzies. We put our faith in things that we believe to be true – good and bad. As far as someone believing such derogatory things about humans, I could argue pot meet kettle. It is funny to me to dismiss the claims/testimony/eye witness accounts of my fellow man regarding God. It’s funny how many non believers liable Christians as absurd and or mad. Sane, intelligent, rational, good, sincere individuals who claim to believe in God are ridiculed and belittled – talk about derogatory.
Wrong again on your part. Where did I ever refuse to acknowledge anything supernatural? All I've ever done is reject Hebrew mythology as being clearly too ignorant and self-contradictory to be a true description of any God.
You judge God according to natural ‘rules’. You fail to recognize their might be (supernatural) explanations beyond your understanding so you treat God as if He were a mere human, having the intellect of a mere human and couldn’t possible know more than us or have information we are not privy to. I stand by my original comment, you judge God according to man’s ways because you do not accept the supernatural. You think a God sending a flood upon the earth is equivalent to a human being do so. You reduce God to how you think He should act according to what you think is fair. Again, like a small child screaming, “That’s not fair�. You fail to know God and congratulate yourself for knocking down the straw man you have created for Him.
I most certainly don't hold that there cannot be a God. But I do hold that no omnipotent, omniscient, all-wise, all-intelligent God could be as ignorant and barbaric as the God described by Hebrew mythology.
Yep, just like the disgruntled teen cannot give his parents credit for being wise in their punishments toward him. They instead accuse them of being stupid and cruel, unable to see the love behind their actions.
Well, of course you would say this because you don't want to address the fact that any God who would behave this way would clearly be inconsistent, not to mention untrustworthy.
Sorry, again it is you who sees Him this way not me. I find no inconsistency or untrustworthiness. Is it inconsistent to say I am loving, but then I refuse to allow evil to go unchecked? I don’t think so, but apparently you do.
You can't allow the Bible to stand "as written" because it can't stand "as written". So you have no choice but to pretend that you could twist it into a story that it doesn't even tell.
Ha! Right back at ya. Your view requires interpretation just like mine. Yours just happens to be different than mine. I’d also say yours appears to be an immature simplistic take.
And then you're going to continue making more of these defective units?
And more amazing ones.
Don't you think the creator should take a bit of responsibility for the results of the things he's creating.
I think you don’t understand love, freedom, God.
Keep in mind that the Biblical God fails at creating decent humans far more than creating decent ones. In fact, according to Christianity the Christianity has NEVER created a decent human. Not so much as a single solitary one.
That's a pretty bad record for a creator God.
And yet Christianity claims we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses – Saints in heaven who have gone before us cheering us on. You hear what you want to hear. . .
“Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a huge crowd of witnesses to the life of faith,� -Hebrews 12:1
"The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart. –Luke 6:45
“Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith.� –Hebrews 13;7
“The precious sons of Zion, Weighed against fine gold, How they are regarded as earthen jars, The work of a potter's hands!� –Lamentations 4:2
"His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.' –Matthew 25:21
“And concerning you, my brethren, I myself also am convinced that you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge and able also to admonish one another�. –Romasn 15:14
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,� -Galationas 5:22
Clearly you have absolutely no clue who you are talking with in this post.
Right back at ya.
I don't reject the Bible because I don't believe that supernatural magic is possible.
So, you keep saying.
I reject the Biblical description of God because I see no reason to believe that a God who could do all those things would ever do them in such an ignorant way.
So, you reject God because He doesn’t fit into your view of God. How convenient. Reminds me of this clip from one of my favorite movies . . .
Do you even realize that if an omnipotent God exists he would have no need whatsoever to have himself incarnated on earth specifically with the plan of having humans brutally beat him and crucify him on a pole with the purpose to be to offer undeserving sinners FREE amnesty.
The word according to Divine Insight. LOL! Did you ever think you might not have it all figured out and the incarnation could have a reason/purpose you don’t see and for the benefit of man?
He could surely do that without all the sick theatrics.
Everybody’s a critic. Everybody thinks, “Well, if I were God, I’d do it this way ______ “ he, he.
But let's face it, Hebrew mythology (i.e. the Bible) simply doesn't describe an all-wise, all-intelligent God. To the contrary it describes a God that would need to be seriously mentally ill as well as extremely inept and powerless.
Again, the word according to Divine Insight. Forgive us if some of us disagree with your take.
Well, you seem to be forgetting that Jesus was all about "Glorifying the Father in Heaven".
You don't Glorify God by keeping these things secret. Also wasn't it Jesus who preached to let your light shine so other men could see the great works of God?
Remember the old Bible School song, "This little light of mine, I'm gonna let is shine?"
Wow, you really do pick and choose your Bible passages, huh? Did you forget these? . . .
A man came to Jesus with a bad skin disease. This man got down on his knees and begged Jesus, saying, “If You want to, You can heal me.� 41 Jesus put His hand on him with loving-pity. He said, “I want to. Be healed.� 42 At once the disease was gone and the man was healed. 43 Jesus spoke strong words to the man before He sent him away. 44 He said to him, “Tell no one about this. Go and let the religious leader of the Jews see you. Give the gifts Moses has told you to give when a man is healed of a disease. Let the leaders know you have been healed.� 45 But the man went out and talked about it everywhere. After this Jesus could not go to any town if people knew He was there. He had to stay in the desert. People came to Him from everywhere. –Mark 1:40-45
Immediately the man’s ears were opened and his tongue was released, and he began to speak plainly. 36Jesus ordered them not to tell anyone. But the moreHe ordered them, the more widely they proclaimed it. –Mark 7:36
If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. –Matthew 10:14
Yeah right. Would you be interested in buying a bridge?
You commented there are no Christians who can do what the Bible claims they can do and I can provide quite a few examples. You probably don’t hear about these things much in your neck of the woods. One can only cry wolf so many times. Non believers claim they would believe if they heard/saw all these things the Bible claims and yet whenever someone tries to tell/show them, they disregard it. Is it a surprise if people stop sharing their experiences with you? You make it clear you want no part of it. So be it.
I post on a public forum so the public and see how utterly absurd Christian apologies truly are. And I thank you for the exchange. You have served my purpose already.
Right back at ya once again. I too, post to expose the typical/usual non believer rants. Yours was the usual, “How could a good God do such mean things? If God can be so mean I don’t want any part of Him.� The entire complaint is based on a straw man, as has already been pointed out to you by other Christians in this thread. You sum God up as you want to and then proceed to ask Christians how they can believe in such a God?� We don’t believe in the God you created.
You don’t seem to even be able to read the Bible as a whole, but instead cherry pick to fit your agenda. And your understanding of the Hebrew God fails to even understand the purpose/point of the Old Testament. Much of it is meant as a story/journey of man. Much of it is meant to explain the relationship between God and man and creation. Your simplistic approach seems to cause you to get a great deal wrong. But hey, keep on telling us how absurd it all is. I’m sure you know what you’re talking about. I thank you for the exchange as well.
