Should human laws be modeled after God's law?

[McCulloch]

Isn’t it correct that sin must be repented of, then society will accept us irregardless of our past. Instead, the gays are pushing it down the throat of society to ACCEPT SIN.

No. Gays and other human rights advocates, are pushing the idea that legal prohibitions and discrimination based solely on religion are not acceptable.

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

The above verse tells me that God would not find your reasoning acceptable.

Since this sin has been made legal, what right does a court of law has to convict murderers, perjurers, false witnesses, … ? It smacks of double standards.

The laws of your country (assuming the USA) were not made to uphold the religious idea of sin. The laws were established to protect rights and to facilitate a well ordered society. There is no double standard in the secular state not enforcing by law the religious precepts of a specific brand of theist.

Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Which is it? Do the religious have the moral right to impose their standard of ethics on the rest of society by force of law? Do the non-religious have the right to ignore God's pronouncements and tolerate sin in society?

[Beta]

A very valid post diggnate ,
I can see that our human problems arise from the split between Church and State.
But the fact remains that trouble is upon us because of our distance from the Creator who has set up Laws for human well-being since before the foundation of the world.
I understand that secular views will differ from mine so I see no point in engaging in deeper communication. Thanks anyway for making me more aware on that score.

[diggnate]

A very valid post diggnate ,
I can see that our human problems arise from the split between Church and State.
But the fact remains that trouble is upon us because of our distance from the Creator who has set up Laws for human well-being since before the foundation of the world.
I understand that secular views will differ from mine so I see no point in engaging in deeper communication. Thanks anyway for making me more aware on that score.

Well, I don't want you to get the idea that I have "secular" views. I'm a Christian through and through.

I just think it's dangerous when we start to legislate to "make people act like Christians" instead of legislating for the good of the people, ie secular benefit.

Sorry if I came off the wrong way.

[McCulloch]

Should human Laws be modelled after God's Laws ?
I thought they were !!!
Did man have any Laws BEFORE the 10 Commandments given by God in Exodus 20 ?

Every human society regardless of their belief in God or gods establishes laws for the regulation of their own society. Hamurabi's code, for instance, predates the ten commandments by quite a bit.

It is obvious that some of our civil Laws were taken from them but in doing so man has violated the entire Law of God which is not to be split up.

It is not obvious. What is obvious is that what you call the Law of God has certain similarities and many differences with the civil laws that are developed in human societies.

Ever thought why our Laws are ineffective, why we are failing to deal with criminals? Man is tampering with God's word and he has withdrawn his protection and power for our peace and safety.

This is an interesting hypothesis. It could easily be tested. If true, one would expect that those societies whose laws are closest to God's Laws would have the least amount of criminal activity and the most amount of peace and safety.

Edited to correct the lasts sentence. Thanks diggnate.

[diggnate]

This is an interesting hypothesis. It could easily be tested. If true, one would expect that those societies whose laws are closest to God's Laws would have the least amount of criminal activity and the least amount of peace and safety.

Ouch! Right you are!

[Beta]

Nathan, you think its dangerous to want people to act as Christian ?
I quite understand we must not force this on anyone but isn't it allowed to persuade them by speech and example ?
Are we not told to go into all the world and preaach the Gospel to every Creature ? In love and peace of course .It's easy to see the State looks at this differently and is thereby inviting a lot of hate and anger.
So which way is right ? I know where I stand ! We can't have it both ways.

[diggnate]

Nathan, you think its dangerous to want people to act as Christian ?
I quite understand we must not force this on anyone but isn't it allowed to persuade them by speech and example ?
Are we not told to go into all the world and preaach the Gospel to every Creature ? In love and peace of course .It's easy to see the State looks at this differently and is thereby inviting a lot of hate and anger.
So which way is right ? I know where I stand ! We can't have it both ways.

No, people acting like Christians is a GOOD thing. However, when the government forces you to act a certain way for religious reasons, it easily gets corrupted.

McCulloch's point was that the nations who's government laws correlate the closest to God's law seem to have the most crime. That was in response to your hypothesis that the nations who have laws closest to the law of God will have less crime.

Again, the solution does not lie in the government. It lies in the people genuinely trying to act as Christ would act. You never saw Jesus picketing the roman government, or setting up ballot initiatives to make Jewish law roman law. He just lived it, and encouraged others to do the same.

The point is, when people are able to write laws based on nothing more than "God said so", we end up with corrupt people twisting things to justify awful acts of human depravity. Just look at Iran, Iraq (pre invasion), lebannon, Jordan, syria, etc. They've corrupted a generally peaceful law into a law enforced by the sword. Don't think for a minute that Christians wouldn't do the same thing with the Bible. They have and they will if we give them the opportunity.

[Beta]

This is an interesting hypothesis. It could easily be tested. If true, one would expect that those societies whose laws are closest to God's Laws would have the least amount of criminal activity and the least amount of peace and safety.

Ouch! Right you are!

I don't think I came over very clear when mentioning the 10 Commandments (also called the Law). They were given to Israel as an ' entire package ' not to be split. A few of them must have found their way into our civil Laws ie; thou shalt not kill, not steal, not bear false witness. But we have split them and therefore reap the consequences. Even Christians don't take God serious enough, many believe the Commandments need not be kept and that fact shows in our crime-rates as well as social ills in our society.
Btw, we can not put God to the test , trying him out won't work. We either seriously accept his Law or we don't get the benefits. We are saved by faith , not by proven facts.

[McCulloch]

I don't think I came over very clear when mentioning the 10 Commandments (also called the Law). They were given to Israel as an ' entire package ' not to be split.

Do correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that the Law (Torah) was defined is the Pentateuch, the first five books of the Bible, ascribed to Moses, who is known as "the Lawgiver" to distinguish them from the Prophets (Nevi'im) and the Writings (Ketuvim). If the Law is not to be split, then do you advocate that we follow:

But if this charge is true [that the woman was not a virgin when she married], that the girl was not found a virgin, then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father's house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you.

Now a man or a woman who is a medium or a spiritist shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones, their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

A few of them must have found their way into our civil Laws ie; thou shalt not kill, not steal, not bear false witness.

These did not find their way into our civil laws. These are incorporated into the civil laws of all successful human societies (including the ancient Israelites) because without them human society just does not work.

But we have split them and therefore reap the consequences. Even Christians don't take God serious enough, many believe the Commandments need not be kept and that fact shows in our crime-rates as well as social ills in our society.
Btw, we can not put God to the test , trying him out won't work. We either seriously accept his Law or we don't get the benefits. We are saved by faith , not by proven facts.

Would that be blind faith which is believing in something without any evidence whatsoever or just faith , believing in something without sufficient evidence?

[Confused]

Should human Laws be modelled after God's Laws ?
I thought they were !!!
Did man have any Laws BEFORE the 10 Commandments given by God in Exodus 20 ?
It is obvious that some of our civil Laws were taken from them but in doing so man has violated the entire Law of God which is not to be split up.
Ever thought why our Laws are ineffective, why we are failing to deal with criminals ? Man is tampering with God's word and he has withdrawn his protection and power for our peace and safety.
God repeatedly admonished man to obey his voice if we want to reap the benefits set up for us. The consequences of human disobedience are seen worldwide.

You are kidding right? Yes, man had laws before the 10 commandments, or was every civilization that existed prior to Moses generation just hybrid animal acting on instinct?

You seek to explain mans laws as being ineffective because God has withdrawn his protection? And this is a loving and just God? Because politics separated church from state, all mankind will now suffer. You realize how irrational this sounds right?

I would guess it is more along the lines of this: If your God exists, he withdrew from mankind long ago after being so disgusted that generation after generation violated His laws and He could do nothing to stop it. He tried to flood the world and start over with Noah and his righteous family, and still, mankind defied Him. He sent His only son and still mankind defied Him. But if such is the case, then God has no factor in life any longer. This to is irrational. If God had no power to stop mans sinful nature, then he isn't all-powerful, if he thought that Noah and his family wouldn't continue the cycle of sin, then He isn't all knowing. If he withdrew from this world, then He is no longer able to judge man at all since He no longer acknowledges mans existence.

Sorry, way to many flaws in that one post for me to even consider your perspective as truth.

[Confused]

A very valid post diggnate ,
I can see that our human problems arise from the split between Church and State.
But the fact remains that trouble is upon us because of our distance from the Creator who has set up Laws for human well-being since before the foundation of the world.
I understand that secular views will differ from mine so I see no point in engaging in deeper communication. Thanks anyway for making me more aware on that score.

So any person who has views that differ from yours, you don't engage in deeper communication? Ok, answer me this one question then, why are you even bothering to post on this site. This site is a debate site. It is a place for us to evaluate our beliefs, to gain new insight, and to modify our beliefs when we find that they are in fact, biases or prejudices, or just flat out wrong.