What's the meaning in John 3: 16?

[marco]

There are huge problems in the following:


“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.� John 3: 16


(a) In what way is LOVE shown by a father releasing a son to be tortured and killed?

(b) What is the meaning of "only begotten". It seems to be interpreted as "God's only son" with some emotion attached to the singularity. In what sense does God have a son, or beget one?

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 16 by Divine Insight]

Of course,

Well, since you agree with all my questions and conclusions then why in the world would I ever think that the Bible describes a valid God?

The Biblical God isn't anywhere near as compassionate and loving as myself.

The Biblical God isn't anywhere near as intelligent as myself as demonstrated by his ignorant violent methods of attempting to solve problems and repeatedly failing without ever having learned anything from his mistakes.

The Biblical God can't even control his emotions as well as I can control mine.

So why should I think these Biblical stories are describing any actual God when that God would be inferior to lil' ol' me in so many ways?

In fact, even you agree, and have posted Biblical proof, that the God of the Bible hates his enemies with "Perfect Hatred".

Yet I, as a mere mortal man, see no reason to hate anyone. On the contrary if someone is doing something that I feel is extremely ignorant and barbaric, my response is to feel sorry for them, not to hate them or consider them to be my enemies.

So why in the world should I think that an ancient fable that describes a God who behaves in these ways could be describing an actual God? The God of the Bible would be inferior to me on so many levels that it simply makes no sense. How could it be that I am so superior to my creator?

That would be impossible. Therefore the Biblical fables of a God must be wrong.

How would it make any sense to conclude otherwise?

[WPG12]

[Replying to Divine Insight]

Agree??

I guess God does give men to their own delusions, doesn't he?

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to Divine Insight]

Agree??

I guess God does give men to their own delusions, doesn't he?

Well, you replied to my post with the following response:

[Replying to post 16 by Divine Insight]

Of course,

If you didn't agree then why did you say, "Of course"?

You can hardly make negative and hateful ad hominem attacks against other members of this forum for simply replying to what you actually say.

Why accuse me of being deluded when you are the one who posted "Of course" in response to my post?

After all, that's a perfectly reasonable response to my post. The questions I asked followed by "This makes sense doesn't it?" were perfectly legitimate.

And your reply was "Of course".

So what am I supposed to think you meant?

Looks to me like you were acknowledging that everything I said did indeed make sense.

So don't accuse me of being delusional for thinking that you have just agreed with my questions when you replied to them with, "Of course".

If you disagreed with them you should have said so.

[WPG12]

[Replying to post 23 by Divine Insight]

Of course,

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 23 by Divine Insight]

Of course,

I see.

So in one thread you complain that no one is interested in having a meaningful conversation where they actually listen to what the other person has to say.

And now you're going to change your tune entirely and just give meaningless smart aleck responses to the serious questions other people post and insinuate that God does indeed give men to their own delusions.

Ok, I see.

There is no way to have any meaningful debate with you about anything then.

Thanks for the heads-up.

[WPG12]

[Replying to post 25 by Divine Insight]

Lol, yeah sure

[bluethread]

There are huge problems in the following:


“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.� John 3: 16


(a) In what way is LOVE shown by a father releasing a son to be tortured and killed?

It is appropriate that you have posted thid in the TD&D forum. You have clearly framed this passage in the RCC/Protestant tradition. The problem with this is that we are looking at a discussion with a member of the Sanhedrian. The RCC focuses on "The Passion", which constitutues little mor than two pages of the Scriptures and less than 24 hours of Yeshua's life. Apart from the reference to Moshe' liftig up the serpent in the wilderness, in verse 15, there is nothing else in the chapter that is close to referring to "The Passion". In addition, I also contend that it would be rather odd for that to refer to "The Passion". To properly understand the verse, one must set aside, RCC doctrine and look at the verse in it's proper historical, grammatical and cultural contexts.


First grammatically, it is Adonai so loved the cosmos(creation), not the anthropoi(populous). Therefore, it was not for the sake of mankind that Yeshua came, but for the sake of His creation. Culturally, this is more in line with the Hebraic focus on one's place within Adonai's people, i.e. "whosoever believes". Historically, that remnant "will not perish" but endure on into eternity. He did not come to condemn the cosmos, but through Him the cosmos would be preserved.

(b) What is the meaning of "only begotten". It seems to be interpreted as "God's only son" with some emotion attached to the singularity. In what sense does God have a son, or beget one?

This is a much more complicated question. Of course, the RCC sees it as simply a reference to His birth and have developed a goodly amount of doctrine around that. However, from a Hebraic viewpoint, "only begotten" is a reference to Adonai's people. (Ps. 2:7) "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." Thus, Yeshua is saying that He is the embodyment of Israel. This brings us back to the second half of your first question. Yeshua undergoes suffering and death, because that is part of the experience of His people and the point of His embodiment was to provide us with an example of how His people should live, even unto death.

[Wootah]

There are huge problems in the following:


“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.� John 3: 16


(a) In what way is LOVE shown by a father releasing a son to be tortured and killed?

(b) What is the meaning of "only begotten". It seems to be interpreted as "God's only son" with some emotion attached to the singularity. In what sense does God have a son, or beget one?

A) Love for others according to the story. This happens every day for the men in blue. It should be understandable. Personally I think it is very unloving to not grow a boy to be prepared to fight for others even if you know they may be killed or tortured. Boys should grow to be men.

B) i think I'll research this again. Its been a while.
https://www.gotquestions.org/only-begotten-son.html

Yeah it just means to me Jesus is God and not just a man and also not an angel or demi god of some kind.

[Tcg]

A) Love for others according to the story. This happens every day for the men in blue. It should be understandable. Personally I think it is very unloving to not grow a boy to be prepared to fight for others even if you know they may be killed or tortured. Boys should grow to be men.

So, your interpretation of John 3:16 is that boys should grow up to be cops.

This is a very novel approach to this verse. One I've never considered.

[Tell the Truth]

[Replying to post 1 by marco]

Marco Marco Marco you missed the base because are running to fast the wrong way that's all.

The Father's standards are high. Lets see how to be of help.

Let's put you in the game. Here's how.

You were with your Father when he built from the ground up the most prosperous business in the 21 century.
His business was a blessing to many. You worked with him in developing the plans. you knew he would never cut corners. He would use the very best of products and was a man of his word. The town loved him and knew he was a generous and wise man that had heart of Gold.

You loved your father very much. He was so good to you. He trained you from the very beginning teaching you challenging you to rise to your highest level and you did. You were a chip of the old block. Everybody loved you you were a real champion.You know he is a fair and honest man and would do anything for anybody. He was always there for you. You were the apple of his eye. Every time you would come around he would just light up. everybody knew how close the bond that you 2 shared.

So when it came time for you to step up to the plate. what would you do?

If you will think honestly before answering that question you would probably find that Christ was willing and able to save the family name and would never let someone still his Fathers creation and turn it into what you see now.

Please take a look at what the Father has given him. He will be king forever.

The Son stepped up to the plate and soon this earth will be restored and there will be no more death.

Got it!