Satan in the World Today

[StuartJ]

The Devil is an actual person rather than a concept, Pope Francis has claimed. Satan is smart and should not be argued with, the Pontiff told TV2000, a Catholic broadcasting network. "This is evil, it is not a diffuse concept, it's a person," he said.

(https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 10621.html)

And according to Pastor John: "The extent of Satan’s influence is global; it covers all nations".

(https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/ ... tive-today)

Could it be that Satan has entered the hearts of we Atheists ...?

Could it be the global influence of the smart, evil person known as Satan that drives us to battle the truth of the Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ ...?

Are we to blame ... can we shift responsibility ...?

[marco]

There are many gods. The God of Abraham simply states that you shall not have any gods before me. Julius Caesar was declared a god by the Roman Senate. Yet according to Revelation 13:4, his "authority" came from the "dragon"/devil.

I wonder why you have settled on Julius Caesar - I can't see any reference to him in the book you quote. He had no divine authority since his deification came after he died. His authority came from his victories in Gaul and in Spain and from his army's support when he was victorious in the Civil War. He was a soldier and a very capable statesman who adjusted our calendar.

Caesar in "modern times" means emperor/dictator. You will find that the evil in modern times seems to stem from emperors/dictators, people with power.

Well I won't find that in modern times: evil comes from evil individuals. Emperors have had their day. The German and Russian words Kaiser and Tsar are just corruptions of the word Caesar, which came to be used by the Emperors after Julius Caesar - who wasn't himself an emperor by the way. Augustus was the first Roman Emperor.

Insread of wasting time with silly Revelation, why not read history? Livy and Tacitus are good and Suetonius gives lots of gossip on the "beastly" Emperors, whom he calls the Twelve Caesars. Most were small man, some of them insane, some of them assassinated; they hardly seem the stuff of divine literature.

[showme]

There are many gods. The God of Abraham simply states that you shall not have any gods before me. Julius Caesar was declared a god by the Roman Senate. Yet according to Revelation 13:4, his "authority" came from the "dragon"/devil.

I wonder why you have settled on Julius Caesar - I can't see any reference to him in the book you quote. He had no divine authority since his deification came after he died. His authority came from his victories in Gaul and in Spain and from his army's support when he was victorious in the Civil War. He was a soldier and a very capable statesman who adjusted our calendar.

Caesar in "modern times" means emperor/dictator. You will find that the evil in modern times seems to stem from emperors/dictators, people with power.

Well I won't find that in modern times: evil comes from evil individuals. Emperors have had their day. The German and Russian words Kaiser and Tsar are just corruptions of the word Caesar, which came to be used by the Emperors after Julius Caesar - who wasn't himself an emperor by the way. Augustus was the first Roman Emperor.

Insread of wasting time with silly Revelation, why not read history? Livy and Tacitus are good and Suetonius gives lots of gossip on the "beastly" Emperors, whom he calls the Twelve Caesars. Most were small man, some of them insane, some of them assassinated; they hardly seem the stuff of divine literature.

Julius Caesar became dictator once he crossed the Rubicon, and as shown in Revelation 13, he ruled 42 months after he became dictator. As written in Revelation 13, he was "slain" by the Senate, and was "healed" as a god, in the form of Augustus Caesars, who had the same "authority" (Rev 13:4), given to him by the "dragon".

Caesar's power to change the calendar was taken from the pagan priest, the position of Pontifex Maximus, and passed down to the Roman emperor Augustus Constantine Caesar, who instituted the Roman church, as the Pointifex Maximus, and then on to the head of the Roman church, the Supreme Pontiff/Pontifex Maximus, who subsequently changed the calendar again. The god of Constantine was the sun god, Sol Invictus, which is why you now use a Gregorian solar calendar by way of Caesar. In this way you worship the sun god, the "dragon", as well as the 5th head of the beast, the "beast" of Revelation 13:8, Julius Caesar.

The "Kaiser", and the "Czar" would simply represent horns of the 8th head of the beast (Revelation 17:11), who "was" and "is not", at the time of the 6th head of the beast, which was Julius Caesar, who would as the 8th head of the beast, hate, burn, and persecute the "harlot"/Judah/Jews (Revelation 17:16), such as in the case of their heirs of power, Hitler, and Stalin.

Instead of your "gossip" on the "beastly" emperors, Revelation 13 & 17 is prophetic about those who persecuted Judah/Jews, from Nebuchadnezzar through to the Romans (noted as iron in Daniel 2), through to a mix of iron and clay, whereas the clay would be in reference to Edom/Muslims, all which are to be ultimately "crushed" (Daniel 2:35). At this stage of the game (Daniel 2:34), Edom/Muslims, and the iron/Rome, as in the Russians were "crushed" in the 1967 and 73 wars. Daniel 2:35 has yet to be completed, when all the persecutors of Judah will be "crushed" "all at the same time", at the battle of the valley of judgment (Joel 3:2) & (Revelation 16:16). The most important emperors/dictators, out of control rulers of today, with respect to Rome, would be Putin and Merkel.

[marco]

The most important emperors/dictators, out of control rulers of today, with respect to Rome, would be Putin and Merkel.

It is a mercy that we have left this stuff behind us with the Spanish Inquisition. But it is good to be reminded of what superstitions religion sometimes spawns. I find it sad that history can be polluted with rubbish from Rev.


If the Devil exists, he is well and truly in Rev and probably its author.

[FWI]

Man, made Yahweh and in his mythologies man has suggested Yahweh made Satan. Man has imagined a big fight and Satan stamping off in a huff. Man is omniscient!

This comment only suggests that there are different sides to the topic and only introduces an opposing position. Yet, it also suggests that the biblical concept of: "man deciding what is right and what is wrong" is part of the struggle, which indicates that there are forces, which can influence human beings, in either direction.

In winter my windows sometimes display the most amazing frost patterns. I never supposed that some intelligent entity designed them.

The ice crystal patterns are the result of very tiny imperfections on the glass surface: such as scratches, specks of dust, salt and/or the residue from washer fluid. These variations in the surface affect the way that the ice crystals form and branch out, which are the result of man's input in creating and cleaning glass. So, design is part of this process. We also need to realize that these formations can only occur when the temperature of the surface is below 32 degrees F, which is another example of design.

Since we haven't examined what affects a "non-physical being" we can hardly made specific claims.

Then, why are you trying to? This is contrary to your introduced position.

[marco]

Man made Yahweh and in his mythologies man has suggested Yahweh made Satan. Man has imagined a big fight and Satan stamping off in a huff. Man is omniscient!

This comment only suggests that there are different sides to the topic and only introduces an opposing position. Yet, it also suggests that the biblical concept of: "man deciding what is right and what is wrong" is part of the struggle, which indicates that there are forces, which can influence human beings, in either direction.

I have no idea what point is being made here as regards Satan in the world today. Of course I accept that there are bad people and good people; I contend that Satan is a human artefact, possibly made to explain bad things.

The ice crystal patterns are the result of very tiny imperfections on the glass surface:

There is no need to give an explanation of patterns. There is no designer behind them. Certain shapes lend thyemselves to geometric tilings, such as hexagons, and we can see in nature that when such shapes appear we have what seems to the work of a giant designer. It isn't.

Since we haven't examined what affects a "non-physical being" we can hardly made specific claims.

Then, why are you trying to? This is contrary to your introduced position.

I am not aware I made any claims about a fictional supernatural being, other than to quote the fictional stories that reveal his fictional qualities. If we are agreeing that the sum total of evil done by humans can be called satanic, that's fine, provided we don't introduce some explanatory life form.

[jeremiah1five]

The Devil, Satan, Lucifer is STILL an obedient servant of God.

And his interaction with man is mostly non-existent until later.
Until then he's on the sidelines.

[StuartJ]

The Devil, Satan, Lucifer is STILL an obedient servant of God.

And his interaction with man is mostly non-existent until later.
Until then he's on the sidelines.

And you can back this up with some good, extra-biblical evidence ...?

We need to be certain that YOU are not a minion of Satan, leading us astray with preposterous claims ...

Please.

[jeremiah1five]

The Devil, Satan, Lucifer is STILL an obedient servant of God.

And his interaction with man is mostly non-existent until later.
Until then he's on the sidelines.

And you can back this up with some good, extra-biblical evidence ...?

We need to be certain that YOU are not a minion of Satan, leading us astray with preposterous claims ...

Please.

"No version of "God" is EVER shown to exist outside the human imagination."

Does the above sound familiar?

That's your signature.

I one-up you...

No version of Lucifer/Satan is EVER shown to exist outside the human imagination.


You disagree on the existence of Creator God and yet you seem to hold that the created cherub exists?

There are big holes in your belief-system, especially when it comes to the obvious.


I don't hold to Dualism. I believe God is Sovereign...er, I mean the non-existent God is Sovereign.

I also hold that man was created by the non-existent God with a sin nature. I also believe the non-existent God is Just and does not penalize the innocent but the guilty. I also believe the non-existent God can do what He wants with His creation - even send people to total separation from Him. Having said that...

If Lucifer/Satan is actively involved in men's sins then we have an alibi: The Devil made me do it!

And so based on this we are not guilty but Lucifer is and we will all go to non-existent heaven and play harps because God does not punish the innocent.

There are a great many Christians who give Lucifer/Satan more power and glory than he actually has. Lucifer, as cherub guarded holy earthly things. Seraphims guarded holy heavenly things.

Once Lucifer was found with iniquity (there is only One non-existent God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to no one.


When the non-existent Jesus saw Lucy fall like lightning from heaven it was the end for that cherub. We don't need Lucifer/Satan to sin.


We do that perfectly fine on our own.


Oh, and I don't have 'extra-biblical' information for you because in my life that is non-existent. But I do read and study the Bible. And THAT is where I come from.

God is Sovereign.

And EVERYONE in their TIME will bow the knee to Yahweh and His Christ.

And the important thing is...

No one will be forced.

[Danmark]

The Devil is an actual person rather than a concept, Pope Francis has claimed. Satan is smart and should not be argued with, the Pontiff told TV2000, a Catholic broadcasting network. "This is evil, it is not a diffuse concept, it's a person," he said.
Are we to blame ... can we shift responsibility ...?

This is nothing but ghost stories. There's no evidence of ghosts or goblins or gods. This nonsensical thinking should be relegated to the dark ages. But of course actual evidence is put by the wayside while ancient texts from people who did not understand science are given preeminence in the world of fantasy/religion.

[marco]

The Devil, Satan, Lucifer is STILL an obedient servant of God.

And his interaction with man is mostly non-existent until later.
Until then he's on the sidelines.

C.S. Lewis has much to answer for. His Screwtape Letters, from Devil to nephew, are not factual documents.

If in some theological sphere Satan is the obedient servant of God, little humans would know nothing of this.

Can we supply a date for the entry of Satan into man's comedy of errors? 353 BC maybe, or 44 BC or 33 AD or 410 AD or 1571 or 1939 ? Fascinating stuff.